I ll post more tonight, but you should really consult with your divorce attorney on this. No excuses.

People use the term “restraining order” to mean many things. What it generally means is some form of a domestic violence order. Which is bad news. Each time people wring their hands about “Red Flag Orders” or having mental warrants taken for them because they took a anti-depressant in 1988, this is what I warn them of. You can lose your Rights for the rest of your life. And most places will not prosecute false EPO/DVO claims because they state that they fear running off legitimate victims of domestic violence by doing so.

You shouldn’t fuck around with this.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
You need legal advice here. Check with your attorney.

This is the best advice.

Lying to the police about facts material to the government is a crime in most jurisdictions. The exact charge would depend on the jurisdiction, and the facts surrounding the lie.

Lying to the court, and usually a court in the applicable jurisdiction is required to issue restraining ordets, will usually fall into the category of perjury.

Just remember, just because you know (or think) she's lying, doesn't mean it can be proven, doesn't mean the cops would investigate it, or that a prosecutor would charge the offender for the lie.

Regardless, you need to talk to competent counsel ASAP.

First, as others have said, get a lawyer that does this type of work in the state in which you live.

But generally, if it is a RO for domestic violence, no (in Florida), it is treated as a civil case, and the Petitioner make a claim, a court date is set, and at the hearing the Judge will listen to the Petitioner and the Respondent and make a determination.

That being said, at the hearing everyone is sworn in, and at that time, any "lies" could be considered perjury, which could be considered contempt of court or prosecuted. But...I did those for quite a few years (on both sides) and never saw anyone prosecuted and held in contempt/

From what I have witnessed in my state, she doesn't need evidence, she won't get in trouble, the police will take your carry permit, they will take your guns, you will have little to no recourse. Talk to your lawyer.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
New York and Rhode Island both appear to be the nearest on-party consent states so your attorney should be consulted before you drive there to make the recorded phone call.

If you have reason to believe the person being recorded is in a "two party (actually all party) consent" jurisdiction, then it's still most likely illegal to record the call, even if it's recorded in a "one party consent" jurisdiction.

Most places that have "two party consent" interpret the law as still protecting people in their jurisdiction when the recording was made, even if the other partying making the recording was outside the jurisdicfion. They claim nexus because the "victim" was in their jurisdiction.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
There's an app that can record and save your phone calls.

Can you tell me the name of this app, for iPhone?

I need to call a government agency for some information. I'm pretty sure that this particular agency records all communications, I would like to have a copy on my end. Nothing nefarious here, I just want to make sure that I have an accurate record of the information that they give me.

Standard disclaimer: Although I am a Florida lawyer, I am not your lawyer and his is not legal advice. Don’t get legal advice on the internet. That said...

Don’t do it! Florida is a two party consent state unless it is a criminal invesigation and one party is LEO or acting on LEO instructions. I am former Florida LEO and prosecutor currently in private practice and am personally aware of criminal arrests and prosecutions of people covertly recording government officials. Arguably, there should not be a reasonable expectation of privacy in calls with government employees, but currently, there most likely is and you don’t want a felony arrest to challenge the system.

If a Florida or local agency, you gan get a copy of the call under Florida public records laws. If a fed agency, you can get under FOIA.

Hope this helps!

This

quote:

Originally posted by Southflorida-law:
First, as others have said, get a lawyer that does this type of work in the state in which you live.

But generally, if it is a RO for domestic violence, no (in Florida), it is treated as a civil case, and the Petitioner make a claim, a court date is set, and at the hearing the Judge will listen to the Petitioner and the Respondent and make a determination.

That being said, at the hearing everyone is sworn in, and at that time, any "lies" could be considered perjury, which could be considered contempt of court or prosecuted. But...I did those for quite a few years (on both sides) and never saw anyone prosecuted and held in contempt/

This is my experience as well. As an additional comment, the temporary order can be obtained by merely making written allegations under oath. Once served, you have to thrn in your guns and cannot buy any while it is pending. Depending what on the jurisdiction, it could be months to get a hearing to challenge the “evidence”. Your state may vary.

That is not a LEO question. That is a lawyer question.

General (and not legal) advice:
Document everything.
No "private" conversations or meetings.
Try to limit communications to text and email as that leaves a record and also gives you a minute to compose your thoughts and not respond to provocation.
If you have children, DO NOT include them in the dispute. Don't complain about her to them, don't let them complain about her to you. Don't use them to send messages back and forth.
Seek legal advice. If there is even a chance of an Order of Protection being issued, you need a lawyer on standby.

I'm not a lawyer nor a LEO, but do have a crazy ex wife. Been divorced for ~20 years now and still have to deal with her odd behavior/comments occasionally - although now it's much easier for me since my daughter is in her 20's and nearly out of college. Your ex sounds as manipulative as mine.


Mine would throw out wild comments every once and awhile when things weren't going her way such as "I should quit my job so you would pay more child support" She didn't quit, but years later was eventually forced out of a really good job. I like to think of that as karma


Keep doing what you're doing, print hard copies of the text message conversations, follow your lawyer's advice and go enjoy the game(s). Keep your composure (it's not always easy) - don't respond to any text message in the heat of the moment.

In CA her "feelings" would likely get a temporary restraining order which removes guns. Once the lawyers and judge get involved the guns hopefully come back but there's a heavy financial cost. Whether the ex gets put through the ringer is hard to say and really depends on what she tells the court in order to get the TRO granted. Her "feelings" are difficult to dispute. That they were based on lies is another story. Lawyer up now. Keep meticulous records. Communicate with her in writing whether email or text. Get ahead of this train. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:
I’ve talked to my lawyer about this when it came up before. He basically said to follow my agreement and we can’t do much unless she actually tries to file. I any case everything is text. I save all of it. It’s all very clear to anyone reading that these are emotional outburst from her. She’s fine for months then loses her shit for some reason. Im just hoping that she knows filing would be bad for her since it’s baseless. If she realizes this it’s all just empty threats to try to control the situation.

Follow your attorney's advice. Abide by the court's orders. Do not rent her space in your head by worrying about what she might do.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
You need legal advice here. Check with your attorney.

Agreed, 100%. This is not something for our policeman friends to help you with. You need to get advice from a family lawyer in your state.

In Texas, she could not get a restraining order against you withour going to court and getting a judge to order it, AFTER giving you notice and all the other protections afforded you by the constitution and the requirements of due process. I don't think Massachusetts would be much different.

In the United States, the police don't get to decide who is right or wrong and who gets to be restrained. Courts do that after notice and a hearing.

I would ask your attorney to set up a court date, and explain to the judge that you would like to attend the athletic events. Show the judge your binder of threatening text messages, and explain to him that you are concerned about future false accusations.

The attorney may be busy, and not want to do this, but this action would put you one or two steps ahead of your ex.

I would skip going to any events where she "feels threatened", and soon she will start texting you as to why you do not show. She is trying to push your buttons, and if you are not there, she will try another way to push them. Let her continue to act crazy and make mistakes, while you make a log of all her craziness.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
You need legal advice here. Check with your attorney.

Agreed, 100%. This is not something for our policeman friends to help you with. You need to get advice from a family lawyer in your state.

In Texas, she could not get a restraining order against you withour going to court and getting a judge to order it, AFTER giving you notice and all the other protections afforded you by the constitution and the requirements of due process. I don't think Massachusetts would be much different.

In the United States, the police don't get to decide who is right or wrong and who gets to be restrained. Courts do that after notice and a hearing.

I do appreciate this advice. As I said I’m not asking for legal advice if she were to file. Just what could happen if she’s caught lying. I have no physical contact with her at all. There can be no claim of abuse since we are never alone together. I pickup the kid for hockey on my weekend and wait in the car for him. I rarely if ever see her. As far as I know she would literally be trying to get a restraining order by saying she doesn’t have to see me on her parenting time. That is exactly what she is texting me.

As I mentioned earlier, my lawyer did already tell me that I should ignore her until she breaks our parenting agreement or does try to file a restraining order.

Also the current crisis may have been averted. We texted again. I told her she would not stop me going to see my son play hockey and that I would avoid her. I went to the game tonight. I’m sure she saw me but I stayed far from her and nothing else came of it.

I truly think these are empty threats. Just want her to realize what she threatens will not help her. I have all the evidence in the world with all her texts.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
In Texas, she could not get a restraining order against you withour going to court and getting a judge to order it, AFTER giving you notice and all the other protections afforded you by the constitution and the requirements of due process. I don't think Massachusetts would be much different.

That won't even happen in CA.

Whenever a party with an existing Family Law case wants to file for a restraining order, they are instructed to file a motion in their existing dissolution case...because the Family Law courts know what is usually happening

You could try these.

As promised, I'll fill in the blanks a little more.

You really need to take this threat (implied or otherwise) seriously. You need to talk to your attorney quick, fast and in a hurry.

Despite what has been erroneously claimed, not all states require a pint of blood, a four leaf clover, and lastly a member of the pin striped mafia to complete a protective order. In the Commonwealth of Kentucky, Kentucky law enforcement fills out or assists in filling out three quarters of the protective orders out there. The rest are filled out during business hours at the office of the Victim's Advocate. In all cases, the protective order is given to LE to track down an on call judge for signing. The judge reviews the sworn affidavit filled out by the person requesting the protective order.

From having carried a number of these to judges over the last 23 years, if there is a component of fear indicated in the EPO, true or not, it gets signed.

In this protective order, there is yardage restrictions (maximum 500 feet), no contact/communication/third party communication, vacate the shared residence, temporary child support, temporary child custody, and the respondent may not possess or acquire firearms or ammunition. If the respondent has a CCDW, LE seizes it on the spot. If there are guns involved, LE generally tries to find a family member to come and get them instead of seizing them. The kicker? Even if the entire premise of the order is a lie, if the respondent violates this, he/she can go to jail for a year, and most likely the EPO will turn into a DVO (more on that in a minute) and you will forfeit your Second Amendment Rights forever.

In the Commonwealth, an EPO can only be "good" for a maximum of 21 days. Inside that 21 days, there must be a hearing in front of a family court judge. During the hearing, both sides are sworn to their statements, and based upon the facts the judge either dismisses the EPO, or converts the EPO to a DVO (Domestic Violence Order) which is good for 36 months.

This system is plagued with problems, and it is the thing I wish more people were scared of. The whole "truth, justice, and the American way" thing is great, until you are the one that gets screwed. I know of a family court judge that hated men. If you got served with an EPO, and you were a man, you were screwed despite the facts. (She was the same way in divorce hearings as well. She always sided with women no matter the case). There is no prosecution of false statements for the silly reason of "scaring off real victims". Utterly silly. The system should be set up to punish those who use EPOs to get their way. Back in the day, I went to many of a call where I would ask one party if they were afraid, and they would emphatically answer "NO, I just want him out of my house". Then, when I explained to them I couldn't force him to leave because he lived there too, they would demand an EPO because of the "party required to vacate the residence" box. Most of the time, despite the objections of LE on the issuance, the protective order was issued anyways. When the initial not being afraid was brought up and the change of mind, I was told "That was then, this is now" and the EPO was signed.

Hell, I saw one signed after the petitioner left the courthouse from a family court appearance. The petitioner had lost her EPO of lies in court as it was dismissed by the family court judge. She waited until after 4 PM, calls LE for an after hours because she was in fear because she "thought" she saw the respondents vehicle in the COURTHOUSE PARKING LOT that he was commanded to come to by the court. Guess what? She was granted ANOTHER EPO because she was "in fear". Oh, and wait, there's more. The protective order does not have to be taken out in the county of residence. I've have seen petitioners try in one county, get shot down, and continue to go county to county until they find a sympathetic judge. And I highly doubt that Kentucky is the only state that the system is this broken.

Don't take this lightly, man. Get ahead of it no matter the cost. In every state, despite the claims made by some, there are horrible, unsatisfactory abuses of the protective order system. Don't allow yourself to be one of them.

Don't let internet advice lull you into thinking that it can't happen. You are the one, and by extension your kids, that suffer if the rosey world they claim doesn't exist.

I hope that this works out for you and your kids, and I wish you the best of luck.

quote:

Also the current crisis may have been averted. We texted again. I told her she would not stop me going to see my son play hockey and that I would avoid her. I went to the game tonight. I’m sure she saw me but I stayed far from her and nothing else came of it.

Glad you got to see your son's game and HOPEFULLY now the crisis will peter out.
However, NEVER NEVER NEVER find yourself alone with this woman. I don't care if you have to hire a piss bum for $5 to be a witness, have a witness on your side.

Distance is a good thing when dealing with emotional people who have a perceived axe to grind.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
There's an app that can record and save your phone calls.

I'm just saying.

Good luck to you.

Yeah, not in Mass, that would be a felony.

In the great state of Utah no evidence is need to file a protective order. A police report is required but women get a pass on that all the time. Judges read the application and decide almost always to grant the temporary order. 2-3 weeks later the guy finally gets some due process rights at the protective order hearing. Maybe. Don't think anything about a protective order is fair. Guys get screwed all of the time.

Be careful. Document everything. Go out of your way to avoid her(sit on the other side of the venue). If you have to communicate do it over text and e-mail. Do not be alone with her. Meet in places where there are cameras. Are you familiar with Lucy, Charlie Brown and the football? Don't be Charlie Brown.