The professional arborist in me will tell you Stihl or Husky. I have never been impressed with the offerings from Echo.

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
I’m looking at a small Granberg Alaskan chainsaw mill.

For the chainsaw selection, you should consider your cutting requirements:
- The plank sizes you will you be cutting. Width and length.
- Dry hardwood, wet softwood, or somewhere in between?
- Is the milling an occasional here and there thing, or is it high volume week after week work?
- How quickly do you need the work completed? Do you want the saw to slice through the wood like a hot knife through butter, or are you willing to deal with a saw that has to be babied so that it doesn't bog down?

Understand that a longer bar consumes more of a saw's horsepower than a shorter bar. You also need a strong bar oiling system to adequately lube the chain on a long bar.

For almost two years now, I've used chainsaws to clear storm damage on 200 acres of pine forests. Cutting pretty much 1-2 days per week. Our saws:
- 16" bar (measures 15") Ego battery powered. Narrow kerf chain. Maybe equivalent to a 35-40cc gas saw. On my second power head.
- 16" bar Stihl 310 gas powered. About 20 years old. 59cc engine, 4.0 horsepower. Carburetor rebuilt some 10 years ago. New bar and clutch this year. Showing its age, but still hanging in there.
- 18" bar Stihl 390 gas powered. About 20 years old. 64cc engine, 4.6 horsepower. Showing its age, but still hanging in there.
- 20" bar STihl 400 CM gas powered, electronic carb controls. 67cc engine, 5.4 horsepower. Only a handful of fuel tanks consumed so far, but what a nice saw. Courtesy of offgrid, also have a 25" bar (measures 24"), but haven't used it yet.

For smaller diameter branches and logs, it doesn't take much power for a saw to cut well. As the depth of cut increases, a saw's horsepower rules.
- My Ego saw does quite well cutting up to about half of its bar length. The saw still cuts big logs, but the motor just doesn't have the torque to bury the blade into wood and lean on it. The engine bogs down, chain speed decreases, and I have to feather the blade. Only so much wood can be shaved at one time. Doesn't mean this is a toy or "non-serious" saw. Just a smaller saw, that kicks ass trimming the gobs of smaller trees and larger branches I must clean up.

- My Stihl 310 is a step up, but it still has its limitations. It absolutely needs a sharp chain to cut 14-plus-inch wood efficiently. Even then, I can't just lean into the wood. My B-I-L's Stihl 390 is better. Hard to bog the motor down with any logs smaller than 12" in diameter or so. But with the 18" bar buried in a log, its motor will bog down, too. I would not consider either of these saws capable of extensive milling. Neither of these saws are meant to fell and buck the ever-increasing number of 25-35 inch diameter beetle kill trees I must deal with on our property.

- My Stihl 400 is on a different level. The power is so much greater that for much of my bucking I don't use full throttle -- it just doesn't seem necessary. Full throttle for felling, however. I've bogged the engine a few times really leaning into it on 24" to 26" trees, with the bar buried. The 400 is able to plunge/bore cut well beyond the capabilities of our 310 or 390. I think this saw could mill OK, but probably not its best use. I'm pretty certain it would mill well to half the bar's length. For consistent milling logs of 18+ inches in width, I'd step up to a bigger Stihl saw -- 500 or 661.

The 400 just flat out runs with a 20" bar. I'll probably need to baby the full-depth cutting a bit with the 25" bar, when I'm cutting trees bigger than 25" in diameter.

Chains are an important part of the mix.
The Ego has a pretty good chain for a small saw. Likely still considered a "safety chain". My chains are semi-chisel with only one raker per cutter. Narrow kerf, so the less powerful electric engine has less wood to remove from the cut.

The Stihl 310 and 390 have a mix of chains. Most are safety chains, what Stihl calls a "green" chain, Stihl "RM". Most are semi-chisel, although I have a couple full-chisel Stihl "yellow" chains which cut noticeably faster. Some of my older 310 chains have a secondary rakers for each cutter. These secondary rakers supposedly reduce kickback, but they also reduce cutting efficiency. They're not fun while burying the bar to fell a big tree -- the secondary rakers add friction and reduce the chain's ability to carry chips out of the cut. On the positive side, these chains do seem to dull a bit more slowly than those with only 1 raker per cutter.

The Stihl 400 only has "yellow" chains. Full chisel, Stihl "RS", they aren't rated for reducing kickback. These chains cut really well. Coupled with the saw's power, big wood chips just fly from the blade. I'm doing my best to keep them out of the dirt, so they stay sharp & purdy.

I don't have any ripping chains. But I can state both the Stihl RM (single raker) and RS chains rip pine wood quite well. But I believe a ripping chain is recommended for milling. If your milling system ultimately ends up bogging down the saw's motor badly, you might consider using skip-tooth chains.

Bottom line -- consider what and how much you intend to mill.

*****
Also, a note on fuel. Standard automotive-type gas mixed with a oil additive isn't the best way to go. Standard gas usually includes methanol, which eventually separates from the gas fuel. Your carb will suffer, which is likely the cause of my Stihl 310's first carb crapping out.

Better to use non-methanol gas. Not very many stations sell it, but it's much better for your saw's engine and fuel system parts. IMO the saw's engine runs better without methanol. Better idling, better cutting, better starting when the engine is neither hot nor cold.

Best to use high-tech pre-mixed fuel. Technically alkylate, a major component of gasoline for cars. This fuel is expensive -- multiple times the cost of non-methanol gas. But it burns cleaner, with less smell. And it lasts longer in the can than non-methanol gas. They say it can sit idle for up to a couple of years and still be good. Non-methanol gas is good for a few months. Regular gas -- use it in a few weeks.

Around here, Stihl is king.

Make sure it's US made and not Chicom, if you care about that kind of thing.

quote:

Commercial Stihl.

+1 great

16" 360pro

To answer some of the questions fritz asked:

*I never use ethanol trash in my small engines.
*Most logs I currently have are 24” or less.
*Some black walnut and oak that’s been lying around for over 3 years so far. Possibility of some maple or cedar here or there.
*I won’t be making a career out of this. It’ll be an occasional thing.

I freehand cut about a four foot section of a smaller black walnut down to a rough 8x8 with my 14” Husqvarna 136. Did the job but it took a long time (partially due to a less than sharp chain). The small Granberg I’m eyeing will take as small as a 14” saw but a 40cc minimum is recommended. My 136 is a 36cc but it would be limited by both size and power. It’s also a fairly old saw and the likelihood of it taking the abuse is pretty low.

i have many chainsaw's including a husky 136. I cannot imagine using anything near that saw for milling any kind of lumber.
How long are your logs? What type of lumber are you trying to cut? How much do you intend on milling? I would not spend a few hundred dollars thinking I was going to use a very small homeowner type saw to do any milling, period.

At the very minimum I would look at a harbor freight milling machine or something similar.

I personally have had good luck with Echo for work around the farm and have 3 chainsaws, a weedeater, a hedge trimmer, and a power unit with multiple heads. I went to a demo day and the rep was really pushing their premixed fuel. I was skeptical so he gave me a can for free to try. I will say it’s very good but is too expensive for me to use all the time but I usually pick some up and run a tank through each piece of equipment every 3-4 tanks.
My timber crew uses Stihl primarily but have a couple Husqavarna backups that have been modified. Sadly they usually get 3-4 months out of a saw but they’re also cutting 60-80 trees per day and bucking them as well. A good indicator is the warranty offered on the saw: if it tells you a different time frame for commercial vs homeowner you’re probably going to be satisfied. I think the major brands are all pretty similar and will meet your needs.

OP, I sent you an email.

I am a Husky fan, but will not crap on a Stihl either. I have owned and abused a 20" Husky 55 Rancher since new in 2000. We burn wood for heat, cutting approx 10 delivered cords a year of Black Ash, plus whatever needs to be cleaned up on the home property or hunting property. I use an aggressive chain (no safety chain) which really digs to where you have to pull back a bit.

Now, I bought this from a mom and pop dealer. I hear that big box store 55 Ranchers are different. Have several friends that are loggers and use both Stihl and Husky's without complaints. We are a logging and papermill community!

I have replaced a couple chain drive parts since new such as clutch, drive sprocket, oiler and filter, plus a plug and air filter once a year.
Again, I use this thing! Also, I use non oxy gas mixed in one-gallon jugs with Husky brand synthetic oil bottles specifically sized for one gallon jugs. This way the mixture is exact. Hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
*Most logs I currently have are 24” or less.
*I won’t be making a career out of this. It’ll be an occasional thing.
My 136 is a 36cc but it would be limited by both size and power. It’s also a fairly old saw and the likelihood of it taking the abuse is pretty low.

I'm not certain you're in a position to do major milling. Our ranch neighbor has a mill that uses a fairly large bandsaw. He milled pine trees from our combined properties to build a barn. I helped him mill lumber from a couple of logs -- both around 28" in diameter, both maybe 16' long. This is real milling. Hard work, beyond what should be done with a chainsaw.

Milling up to 24" diameter hardwood logs takes the right tools, even on an occasional basis. Probably more than the Grandberg mill. Way more than a consumer-grade 36cc saw. Probably need a 70cc or larger pro-grade saw.

Consider what you will do with the lumber you mill. If you can sell enough to pay for a big chainsaw and a good mill, and if you're willing to put the effort into making the lumber, then go ahead with the milling. Otherwise, consider selling the logs you have, burning them in your fireplace, or just letting them rot in the woods.

My preference is Stihl or Husqvarna (pro model if money allows). My go to saw has been an 18" Stihl MS250 (occasionally using a heavier 20" Echo 590 Timberwolf for larger stuff). I recently replaced both with a Still pro saw MS261 with 20" bar that is just slightly heavier than the MS250 yet a lot more powerful.

I have had Stihl and Husqvarna and they are both good. In fact my newest saw is a Husqvarna pro model and it’s the best saw I’ve ever had. I chose it over its direct Stihl competitor because I have it a slight edge in how it felt in my hands. I would personally rate Stihl and Husqvarna higher than Echo as they both have better power to weight ratios than Echo. Echo saws are good, reliable saws but always seem heavier than a comparable Stihl or Husqvarna of similar horsepower. Personally, I will never buy a homeowner or farm grade saw from any company again. Not because they were problematic but because the professional models are just so much better - nicer materials lighter weight and better power to weight ratios. For use with even a small Alaskan mill I wouldn’t consider any non pro model saw. I’ve got good dealer support for Stihl and Husqvarna so I don’t mind owning both, but if you’re stuck between Stihl and Husqvarana go with whomever has better dealer support close by.

quote:

Husqvarna

No, NO, NO! short life always a PIA to start.

Fritz, I thought I made it clear that I have no plans or desire to use that tiny Husqvarna to mill anything. That’s why I made the original post, wondering if there was anything that really put one brand above the others. Thanks for the huge amount of info though. I knew someone here would know waaay more than most of us.

I'm pretty sure the mill mfg. will certainly provide you with the necessary specs of a saw that will work with what you want to do.
I'm equally sure that nobody on this thread has actually discussed a serious saw which is what I think would be required, but I have no personal experience on these mills. At least old dino has some baseline experience as well as I'm guessing you can find some forum somewhere with others with real life experience.
The Stihl 361 above is one of my favorite saws as its light enough that I can easily hike into the woods with two of them to work. I have 6 of them (as well as a dozen more bigger Stihl saws). But there is not a chance that I think a 361 would survive constant use at full throttle for very many hours. Heck I'm equally sure that my 660 or 880 would not last very long either.
Seems like terrible duty for a chainsaw. But as I have posted on all of these various chain saw discussions, the best of breed on these is the Stihl commercial saws which I know from personal experience over millions of board feet of trees cut.

I've been very happy with the two Stihl pro saws (260 and 460) I've owned for about a decade now. Both saws start easily and have a good power to weight ratio. Neither has required any work beyond expected routine maintenance.

quote:

Originally posted by old dino:
One thing my local Stihl repair guy said I should do with the MS361 is the muffler mod. It would make a big difference with this saw but he said as an authorized Stihl repair guy he would not be able to service my saw. He recommend I do modify the muffler.

I poked a bigger hole in my MS290 muffler, pulled out the limiters, re-adjusted the carb. Made a noticeable difference, not huge. I’ll do the same to the 400CM when warranty expires.

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
wondering if there was anything that really put one brand above the others

Our family has owned a number of brands of saws over the decades. Only my B-I-L has owned Husqvarna -- IIRC 3 different models, I don't know the model numbers or names. He had a mid-sized that for years we used to fell beetle kill pines in both the mountains and plains. A large Husky to build his log home in the mountains. A small one for my sister.

We use saws at elevations from 5,000 to 9.000 ASL, from summer heat to winter snows. My B-I-L consistently stated that once a Husky saw was started and warmed up, it cut really well. His big issue was starting, regardless of the saw's temperature. After seeing how our Stihl 310 worked, he stopped using Husky and bought a Stihl 390.

Our 20-something-year-old Stihl saws start well when completely cold or fully hot. Their starting issues have been with that in between warm level. Say when you finish a tank of fuel, work on the felled wood for awhile, and then refuel before the saw is completely cold. I've learned how to deal with my Stihl 310 when it's warm. It's a combo of keeping the air filter really clean (I wash it every few fuel tanks), using good fuel, using a touch of gun oil on the carb & throttle controls after hosing down the area under the air filter cover. At one time I consistently flooded a warm saw.

My new Stihl 400 CM has electronic controls on the carburetor. Stihl's electronics seems to be an amazing difference on starting. Hot & cold temps, hot/warm/cold saw, all altitudes -- it just starts. It's happy idling for extended periods, even when I had to drop the saw (it ended up upside-down) and chase a bucked log that rolled down a hillside towards the main road. When my Stihl 310 dies, I will replace it with a Stihl with some form of electronics.

I don't know if Husky has such type of electronics. I have no experience with an Echo.

There are bunches of videos of folks milling with chainsaws. Google and enjoy. Here's a milling video from an arborist in Denmark. She's quite new to milling, but experienced with felling. It appears she's familiar with a lot of saws, but now more Stihls than others. Her review of the Stihl 400CM contributed to my purchasing it over other models.

Note she's using a Stihl 661 in this milling video -- pro saw, 91cc engine, 7.2 hp. She still states this saw isn't optimal for milling. It must be warmed up before cutting and cooled down between cuts. It sounds like she's considering using a Stihl 881 for future milling -- pro saw, 121cc engine, 8.6 hp.

milling

Her cat, zooming around, stuck in a bag is a classic outtake.