One of the biggest factors is how many are sitting on the lot and for how long (e.g. discounts likely if it's more than 90 days unless the dealership doesn't mind paying interest month after month on inventory). Around here, dealer lots are filled to the brim.

A few examples:

2024 Mazda CX-90 PHEV Preferred Package 4WD. Caredge says target price about 5% below MSRP which is $1000 below dealer invoice.

2025 Mazda CX-50 HYBRID PREFERRED 4WD. Caredge says discount unlikely.

2025 Honda CR-V Hybrid Sport-L FWD. Caredge says target price is about 7.75% below MSRP is $1000 below dealer invoice.

I also checked their slowest selling list, and 9 of 10 are luxury vehicles. Ford Escape was the exception so I checked out some plug-in hybrids and there are a bunch on lots for more than 200 days. For example, 2024 Ford Escape PHEV FWD has a target 4% MSRP which is dealer invoice. No wonder these things aren't moving.

Here's a tip, if you're looking at a Ford (Lincoln, etc.) product. X-Plan pricing is fixed by Ford. The dealer can't fuck with it; no "processing fees," no "dealer added profit." With X-Plan, you will get the same price for the vehicle at any Ford (or Lincoln) dealer.

How do you get X-Plan pricing? One way, is to belong to a group that has negotiated this with Ford.

One such group is Experimental Aircraft Association. Membership is $48.00, check it out at eaa.org

We just replaced our totaled ‘23 Subaru Forester Wilderness with a new ‘24. The ‘25 Forester is a new generation, and I don’t like its styling.

Also, there is no Wilderness trim until later this year. Because of this, Subaru still sells the ‘24 Forester Wilderness along with the ‘25s. Dealer knew this and raped me, but at least I got 1.9.

Bought a ‘24 Subaru Outback Limited last April. Price was posted on the dealer website which was very fair. I had already arranged financing but they asked to try and were able to get us a better rate. The only minor issue was them trying to sell us the vehicle protection package - exterior, interior but we declined.

quote:

Originally posted by birddog1:
Bought a ‘24 Subaru Outback Limited last April. Price was posted on the dealer website which was very fair. I had already arranged financing but they asked to try and were able to get us a better rate. The only minor issue was them trying to sell us the vehicle protection package - exterior, interior but we declined.

We are PRETTY sure we were violated in an extreme way. Literally, I shouldn't have "negotiated" while having the flu. The finance manager said, as of '25, Subaru and other manufacturers were going to have a bumper to bumper 36 month/36k mile warranty, but with a difference. It was only for the first year/12k miles, and the next 24 months/24k miles was more limited.

Due to this "limitation" AND because, according to them, you can't get their extended warranty after the initial purchase, we did get the extended. The 1.9 was our fixation, but still, we did pay way more. However, out payment was similar to our totaled '23, which was at 6.9%.

quote:

Originally posted by ftttu:

quote:

Originally posted by birddog1:
Bought a ‘24 Subaru Outback Limited last April. Price was posted on the dealer website which was very fair. I had already arranged financing but they asked to try and were able to get us a better rate. The only minor issue was them trying to sell us the vehicle protection package - exterior, interior but we declined.

We are PRETTY sure we were violated in an extreme way. Literally, I shouldn't have "negotiated" while having the flu. The finance manager said, as of '25, Subaru and other manufacturers were going to have a bumper to bumper 36 month/36k mile warranty, but with a difference. It was only for the first year/12k miles, and the next 24 months/24k miles was more limited.

Due to this "limitation" AND because, according to them, you can't get their extended warranty after the initial purchase, we did get the extended. The 1.9 was our fixation, but still, we did pay way more. However, out payment was similar to our totaled '23, which was at 6.9%.

Ours included 3 oil changes/rotations as well as free wiper replacements. I also bought the extended warranty because of the multiple, costly problems with my Honda CR-V that we traded in on the Subaru. We got 2.9% which was better than our credit union was giving us. The next week my neighbor went to the same dealer on my referral and bought an outback also, he was just as happy with his experience.

quote:

Originally posted by birddog1:

quote:

Originally posted by ftttu:

quote:

Originally posted by birddog1:
Bought a ‘24 Subaru Outback Limited last April. Price was posted on the dealer website which was very fair. I had already arranged financing but they asked to try and were able to get us a better rate. The only minor issue was them trying to sell us the vehicle protection package - exterior, interior but we declined.

We are PRETTY sure we were violated in an extreme way. Literally, I shouldn't have "negotiated" while having the flu. The finance manager said, as of '25, Subaru and other manufacturers were going to have a bumper to bumper 36 month/36k mile warranty, but with a difference. It was only for the first year/12k miles, and the next 24 months/24k miles was more limited.

Due to this "limitation" AND because, according to them, you can't get their extended warranty after the initial purchase, we did get the extended. The 1.9 was our fixation, but still, we did pay way more. However, out payment was similar to our totaled '23, which was at 6.9%.

Ours included 3 oil changes/rotations as well as free wiper replacements. I also bought the extended warranty because of the multiple, costly problems with my Honda CR-V that we traded in on the Subaru. We got 2.9% which was better than our credit union was giving us. The next week my neighbor went to the same dealer on my referral and bought an outback also, he was just as happy with his experience.

I admit my shame on this last deal. The salesman did his disappearing act like they do, and I told my wife, right when he immediately disappeared again after asking us if we were good with a certain monthly payment, that that was our immediate downfall.

We made it to the finance guy to do all the signing, and we left with the usual white envelope full of documents. We didn’t take delivery that night since it was still wrapped in transport packaging, but finance guy didn’t know that. After handing us back to salesman, I think he kept the rest of the documents, which we didn’t see separated, after finding the vehicle wasn’t going to be delivered that night.

I was sick with the flu, but I still took delivery of it the next day. That night or the next night, I wanted to review my contract. When I looked in the white envelope, I was shocked to find it was not in there. I called them back and told them that and they said they would get it to me soon. it took a few days, but finally got it in hand. Along with another document showing more of a breakdown.

On that one document, it showed I paid almost 1000 bucks for nitrogen for my tires. 500 bucks for door cuttings 1000 bucks for accessories which I think is for the window tinting, and one more thing I can’t remember right now. That document was never gone over with me with the salesman or the finance guy. I was so pissed at them and at myself!

Hey, at least I got $500 off for buying my third Subaru from them, and also getting a military discount which took a little bit off in addition. I will not purchase another vehicle from them, nor will I do that or any other major purchase while not having full faculties.

I will be looking for my next ride soon. While it is reassuring that dealing with auto sales is back to pre covid normality, I am sort of aghast at advertised prices.
Basic cars like the Toyota Corolla and Honda civic are near 30 grand!!
My situation is I’M getting near the tail end of my career, and once retired I expect most of my driving will be to and from the gun club or my VFW post. Don’t need anything fancy. My current commute is 80 miles round trip, and is through some pretty desolate territory. Reliability is number one for me.
I don’t take much stock in consumer reports or similar publications, as every vehicle I have owned on the “ don’t buy it they suck “ list ran for me like a champ - one of my Jeeps - an always low scorer on durability reliability charts- is over 300K miles at this point, handed off to a friend who still uses it in tough northeastern winter as a plow truck

What is everyone’s pick via personal experience for top notch reliability?

What value does your current car have? It may be worth buying out the lease and flipping it to Carmax.

I just made an interesting discovery. There are an inordinate number of Masaratis in my small, rural community. I asked my banker friend about it, and he said the resale value on that model is horrible, and a decent one could be had for about the cost of a new mid-range car, such as a Camry. Probably not your thing, but interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by BKile:
We put around 15K miles per year with a handful of 800 mile round trips per year. Not interested in an EV but definitely considering a hybrid. Our daughter loves her Honda Hybrid. We are looking at Suburas, Mazdas, and Hondas. Had a Subura and loved it, friends love their Mazda and daughter her Honda.

My wife and I just flipped both of our cars. She's now in a leased Chevy Equinox EV (very inexpensive lease, even at 15k miles per year) and I picked up my purchased Honda Accord Hybrid last Wednesday. This is my first Honda and I had to wait a month for the trim I wanted.

We went into this assuming we'd end up with the really cheap leases Tesla was offering, but we couldn't overlook the rattles in the Teslas we test drove nor the need to completely relearn how to operate a car (God help me, I hate touch screen interfaces in cars). The high insurance rates didn't help either.

There was inventory available and dealers are negotiating. We wanted a BEV and between the Equinox, Model Y, Honda Prologue, and Chevy Blazer EV, the Equinox was the sweet spot. Good value, nice package, drove well. The Prologue is actually a Blazer EV with Honda body and interior, but it's so much nicer than the Balzer it's embarrassing for Chevy. We now have two BEV's in the house. My daughter is driving our 2019 bolt (70k miles on it, zero maintenance except for tire replacement).

BKile, I'm really impressed with the Honda Accord hybrid. Very smooth, good power, incredibly roomy. Just the right mix of screens and buttons. Drove an errand across town yesterday, 60/40 highway and surface streets, got 41.9 mpg for the trip.

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:
I will be looking for my next ride soon. While it is reassuring that dealing with auto sales is back to pre covid normality, I am sort of aghast at advertised prices.
Basic cars like the Toyota Corolla and Honda civic are near 30 grand!!
My situation is I’M getting near the tail end of my career, and once retired I expect most of my driving will be to and from the gun club or my VFW post. Don’t need anything fancy. My current commute is 80 miles round trip, and is through some pretty desolate territory. Reliability is number one for me.
I don’t take much stock in consumer reports or similar publications, as every vehicle I have owned on the “ don’t buy it they suck “ list ran for me like a champ - one of my Jeeps - an always low scorer on durability reliability charts- is over 300K miles at this point, handed off to a friend who still uses it in tough northeastern winter as a plow truck

What is everyone’s pick via personal experience for top notch reliability?

Yup, on a Corolla or Civic, if you want any options at all, or a decent trim really, yeah you are looking at $30k with tax, if not a little more. It’s nuts. I would avoid CVT’s like the plague. I found 2 Corolla hatchbacks with 6MT with 15k or less miles, 2023 models, but very few in the country. One was in New Orleans and the other on the East Coast IIRC. About $22.5-23k used. I’d take one of those over a new one with CVT as the only transmission on offer. For $30k, I’d buy a base BRZ or GR86. Same car just different badging. And get it with the 6MT. Has both Port and Direct injection both. I may be replacing my daily driver with one at some point this year.

We aren’t at pre-covid normality. It’s still a sellers market in my opinion. Lots are filling up though, finally. I would wait until the fed drops the rate a few times this year before buying anything if you can wait. The % rates still suck. Some more time will force the stealers to ease up on pricing and start dealing again, and or interest rates to fall. I would say “not yet” but we’re getting there.

So, we are down to two vehicles. We decided to pass on hybrids or EV's. Maybe next time. Also looking at a 36 month lease, but a purchase is not necessarily out of the picture. The two finalists are a Kia Sportage and a Mazda CX5. The Sportage was a HUGE surprise and is by far the roomiest vehicle in this class. Out are the Honda CRV and Subaru Forrester. The CRV does not have everything we want and the Forrester is much more expensive. A final test drive is scheduled for my wife and I and we will start negotiations.

If anyone cares, the new(2026)Subaru Forester Wilderness was revealed yesterday, and I wish I could have waited until this fall when it is released. From what I have seen from the videos, it is more capable than my 2024…but not by much.