I'll bet the all drank milk, but Big Dairy has such a strangle hold on Washington, they won't let anyone make the connection.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Yes... I was saying that they don't give these medications to anyone for no reason. You don't take them just because you like the taste.

De gustibus non est disputandum.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
The next addictive crisis which is already on the horizon are the stimulant medications, ie Adderall and the like which are abused by one of out of four college students. Everyone seems to know about opiates, more restrictions are now being placed on benzos. Physicians are now doing screens routinely on patients taking benzos to see if other drugs show up. The stimulant drugs will be next.

In Texas, Adderall and related drugs are already "more controlled" controlled substances than benzos and have been for years. Not sure if that is true on a national level or not.

A doctor can call in a prescription, with refills, for a benzo. Adderall and similar drugs require a hard copy prescription from a special serialized carbon-copy prescription pad and refills are prohibited.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
I'll bet the all drank milk, but Big Dairy has such a strangle hold on Washington, they won't let anyone make the connection.

Milk has a very low profit margin, while pharmaceuticals have an incredibly high profit margin.

While I agree with Arc that they don't prescribe the drugs for no reason, I do think they prescribe them too freely in some cases. Sad? Take a pill. Anxious? Take a pill. Cant sleep? Take a pill. Most everyone goes through times, tough times, where they feel these emotions. Rather than figure out how to cope, adapt, and survive, and maybe someday thrive, we take a pill to mask the feelings.

In my past have written elected officials, TV stations, and also newspapers in support of the 2nd A when the rhetoric is absent of logic. I recently wrote to my former trade publication because they inserted an editorial supporting and advocating gun bans into the bicycle business trade publication. In my dissertation I wrote a nice, but also logical effort to refute errors and complain that erroneous opinions did not belong in the trade publication.

Among statements I made, besides mental health in general, clearly something has changed in kids in the last 20-40 years and medications have been one of the few common denominators. I don't doubt some people are helped. However we have seen an explosion of psychotropic drugs used on an ever widening range of symptoms, and from an earlier age than before. Coping mechanisms might now be underdeveloped and responsibility and consequences seem to be foreign thoughts. I have personally heard from teachers who have had kids speak out and say their behavior isn't their fault because they have a medical condition, and a reason to take the drugs. IMO, clearly a correlation worth investigating.

On a side note my letter to the editor was edited down by about 60% (without notation) by removing logic and facts, then published the following month. In less than 30 days I was let go from employer for vague reasons (never in the bottom 50%), and without cause. I have considered a correlation is possible.

The writer and the head of Trek, John Burke, were cited as agreeing in activism to ban guns. Burke's sister ran for gov (D) in Wis recently. If they wish to be public about it I will let you all know that Trek is anti gun, and posts their company owned stores as firearms prohibited in PA. Mary Burke

quote:

clearly something has changed in kids in the last 20-40 years and medications have been one of the few common denominators

People have been bitching about "kids these days" since ancient Greece was a thing. It's about as new as guys in the military bitching about the equipment they're issued.

What's the easier way to get your own Wikipedia page and national news coverage...cure or discover a horrible disease or shoot a bunch of people? One takes a lot of work and brains the other just takes a gun and being an asshole.

IMHO, If the freaking news media would STOP POSTING THEIR PICTURES AND SAYING THEIR NAMES creating instant "celebrity" status, a lot of this would go away. RXs or no RXs.

quote:

Originally posted by BadDogPSD: Most everyone goes through times, tough times, where they feel these emotions. Rather than figure out how to cope, adapt, and survive, and maybe someday thrive, we take a pill to mask the feelings.

While I agree that pills aren't the answer for short term problems, those suffering from depression, GAD, etc are "feeling" emotions at a level that the rest of us never have. Taking an SSRI gets them back to where you and I are normally, including ups and downs. Not all classes of psychiatric drugs are the same. The most common (SSRIs) do not add Serotonin to your brain, they only allow the brain to more efficiently utilize what's already there.

I have a family member that takes Sertraline for severe anxiety. You'd never know it.

Telling her to cope or "deal with it" would be like telling a type I diabetic to just watch what they eat and forget about the insulin.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by BadDogPSD: Most everyone goes through times, tough times, where they feel these emotions. Rather than figure out how to cope, adapt, and survive, and maybe someday thrive, we take a pill to mask the feelings.

While I agree that pills aren't the answer for short term problems, those suffering from depression, GAD, etc are "feeling" emotions at a level that the rest of us never have. Taking an SSRI gets them back to where you and I are normally, including ups and downs. Not all classes of psychiatric drugs are the same. The most common (SSRIs) do not add Serotonin to your brain, they only allow the brain to more efficiently utilize what's already there.

I have a family member that takes Sertraline for severe anxiety. You'd never know it.

Telling her to cope or "deal with it" would be like telling a type I diabetic to just watch what they eat and forget about the insulin.

Its easy to sit back and make stupid comments when you have never dealt with some of these issues.

I take zoloft for anxiety, should all my guns be taken away??? Should my ffl license be taken away?

Blaming medication for the problem is no different than blaming guns for the problem.

The root of the problem is evil people.

Dito:

Here's the problem with blaming these drugs on the mass shootings, how many people take these drugs and do not kill multiple people?

Blaming a drug is really no different than blaming the gun....

quote:

Because that's not the problem they want to solve.

Exactly and unequivocally this.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
Here's the problem with blaming these drugs on the mass shootings, how many people take these drugs and do kill multiple people?

Blaming a drug is really no different than blaming the gun....

This guy right here.

Could the drugs have something to do with it? Mebbe. But maaaaaaaybe it's more likely that some of the folks they put on the drugs are just the type to go off the deep end and start hosing down classrooms and movie theaters, the drugs just didn't fix their problem. Maybe it made it worse for some people, that happens. We're incredibly complex meat robots, all manner of thing could throw us out of whack and we wind up malfunctioning. You take this pill, and you're not depressed anymore. You take that pill and suddenly you hear voices telling you to kill the mailman. You take another pill and your asshole bleeds, but at least your hair is growing back.

It's not either/or. You have to be messed up to be prescribed these drugs, but it is still an open question whether they help, or actually cause some patients to go right over the deep end.

If we want to talk "root causes," we need to examine the whole culture-- and the place of boys today in our culture-- that produces very sick, and ultimately evil, killers.

Jordan Peterson has some brilliant insights on this very large cultural question, basically a philosophical and psychological question, or series of connected questions.

Sorry I don't have a link at my fingertips, maybe someone else does. I'm thinking specifically of a talk he gave that proceeds from the Cain and Abel story. If I can find it, I'll link it.

You can pick this up at the 25 minute mark-- but I strongly recommend you watch from the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23dArPpXgCM

No legal prescription psychiatric drug in the world ever "makes" anybody do anything.

quote:

Originally posted by LtJL:
No legal prescription psychiatric drug in the world ever "makes" anybody do anything.

I agree with the sentiment expressed by you and others in this thread. Malevolence doesn’t come from any drug (except maybe alcohol). And with school killings they are purposely targeting innocents because they have decided to fuck it all, and the desire to harm others comes from a lack of meaning in their own lives.

If you ever listen to any Jordan Peterson he will draw the line for you around “meaning“ and how that can influence your life subtainially; for those who decide to cash in and take others with them is a special kind of malevolence. And it doesn’t come from a antidepressant.

I will also agree that young boys in our country are asked to sit still/quietly in school like little girls And if they don’t, the consequence is medication.

I think people here would be amazed at the actual rates of amphetamine use in our population for men. It’s far more than you would think amongst people - something well over 1:4.

But our military has been studying this ever since these drugs were developed and we still issue them to our soldiers.

I think it is highly unfair to target people who need a little psychiatric help in their lives as the root cause for the school shootings. It’s not that simple. It’s complicated.

I think these school shootings are done by angry individuals who cannot handle reality, cannot deal with rejection, or hardship like other people, and decide to act out, especially with Facebook, and other outlets, maybe ban facebook/twitter for teenagers...not a popular move. Using Columbine as there focal point as in the Houston/Texas shooting.

What do the schools have to do? Start identifying students who fit the mold...loner, threats, access to guns, strange behavior, history of family problems involving police, etc. parents need to be involved and held responsible if they allow their kids access to guns. Have meetings with parents/students before trouble gets out of hand, transfer kids to other schools if necessary. But you know parents these days don't want to take responsibility and will blame the school for profiling their kids and threaten to file law suits etc. But to me if you want to reduce school tragedies, that's what needs to be done. There are probably thousands of students who fit the above description, but nothing will be done...hate to keep hearing of these tragedies on the news but someone...especially parents need to get involved, and stop whatever behavior is going on before their kids become murderers.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rpm2010,

Mass shootings are not a problem with a single solution, and they can only be minimized, we'll never prevent all of them.

How we do it has little or nothing to do with any gun control legislation, and everything to do with effecting cultural and societal change.

Part of the change needed, is America has for many years misunderstood and stigmatized "mental illness." Most typically, by labeling people crazy, or not crazy, and the idea that anyone "just snaps."

Meanwhile, there is a broad spectrum of functional humans out there, who have "mental illness," but are not deeply impaired or dangerous because of it.

In the furor over mass shootings, and the naive push again and again to ban guns, the two main causes of firearm deaths get routinely ignored. #1 being suicide. If we could minimize suicides, we'd deeply impact that number of gun deaths, the one Leftists like to claim is all caused by "assault weapons."

Depression and anxiety are things that everyone experiences sometimes. Some people need help in the form of therapy or medication. Many people have at one time or another contemplated suicide, some people become convinced it is the only way out. How we judge any of these folks is important. If we continue to just file them under "crazy" and make as if they are not accepted as part of society, that isn't a good thing for anyone.

If we look at the root of mass shootings, and much of the gun violence, there is a disconnect. A disconnect from a feeling of community, of being part of the world.

There are a lot of moving parts as to what precipitates a mass shooting, and how future ones may be prevented. Some are active measures, like "hardening" schools. Others are passive measures, like parents not ignoring their children.

The rise of smart phones and social media, has in my opinion done more damage in a shorter time than "rock music," or violence on tv or in movies(or video games) ever did in the past. The difference is that kids can now judge, bully, and ostracize without having to do it in person, and often with other people or anonymous internet trolls to help. It's not simply the "moral degradation," but the direct damage to how everyone socially interacts.

If you don’t understand that correlation does not indicate causation, you can’t be helped. There are people that want to blame this on everything under the sun instead of the person doing it.

Because big Pharm donates almost 6 times as much money to Congress than the NRA. Yet people are complaining about the NRA lobby.

Why isn't anyone talking about all of the mass shootings that were prevented because a demented person got the medical treatment the needed?