I don't remember hearing of this assassination attempt. The part that stood out to me is that the killer was tried twice and executed within a matter of a few weeks. That's the kind of justice we need to return to today. There was no question that this guy was guilty, so no need for endless delays, motions and other nonsense.

http://www.history.com/this-da...sassination-in-miami

FDR escapes assassination in Miami

On this day in 1933, a deranged, unemployed brick layer named Giuseppe Zangara shouts Too many people are starving! and fires a gun at America’s president-elect, Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Roosevelt had just delivered a speech in Miami’s Bayfront Park from the back seat of his open touring car when Zangara opened fire with six rounds. Five people were hit. The president escaped injury but the mayor of Chicago, Anton Cermak, who was also in attendance, received a mortal stomach wound in the attack.

Several men tackled the assailant and might have beaten him to death if Roosevelt had not intervened, telling the crowd to leave justice to the authorities. Zangara later claimed I don’t hate Mr. Roosevelt personallyI hate all officials and anyone who is rich. He also told the FBI that chronic stomach pain led to his action: Since my stomach hurt I want to make even with the capitalists by kill the president. My stomach hurt long time [sic].

Zangara’s extreme action reflected the anger and frustration felt among many working Americans during the Great Depression. At the time of the shooting, Roosevelt was still only the president-elect and had yet to be sworn in. His policies remained untested, but reports of Roosevelt’s composure during the assassination attempt filled the following day’s newspapers and did much to enforce Roosevelt’s public image as a strong leader.

Unsubstantiated reports later claimed that Zangara’s real target had been Cermak and hinted at Zangara’s connection to organized crime in Chicago. Zangara was initially tried for attempted murder and sentenced to 80 years in prison, but when Mayor Cermak later died of his wounds, Zangara was retried and sentenced to death. Zangara died on the electric chair on March 20, 1933. (I corrected the date from the original History.com post. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Zangara)

Yes, and there have been alternate history novels written where FDR WAS assassinated that day which changed many things. IIRC, The Man In The High Castle was one of them which portrays life after we enter WWII too late because of a pacifist POTUS and we end up losing.

Now that is what I call prompt/speedy justice!

Shot on this day in '33, executed March 20, '33.

We need a helluva lot more of that!

What is the average length of time those sentenced to death in this country? A couple decades? Then we spend millions doing stupid shit like spending shit-tons of money on transplants, etc so we can then kill them later!

Our legal system is so screwed up that it provides little incentive NOT to violate the laws.

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
Now that is what I call prompt/speedy justice!

Shot on this day in '33, executed March 20, '33.

We need a helluva lot more of that!

What is the average length of time those sentenced to death in this country? A couple decades? Then we spend millions doing stupid shit like spending shit-tons of money on transplants, etc so we can then kill them later!

Our legal system is so screwed up that it provides little incentive NOT to violate the laws.

It didn't appear to stop murders, though - executing him in six weeks. Even political murders. Kennedy, Kennedy, King, an attempt on Wallace, attempt on Ford, attempt on Reagan. And how many other murders?

I don't think executions deter murderers. Maybe there are other reasons to execute murderers, but I don't think they deter. Murderers don't generally draw up charts of pluses and minuses, and make rational decisions about murdering.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I don't think executions deter murderers. Maybe there are other reasons to execute murderers, but I don't think they deter.

Repeat offenders are pretty rare.

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
Now that is what I call prompt/speedy justice!

Shot on this day in '33, executed March 20, '33.

We need a helluva lot more of that!

Heck, that was enough time for two trials, back in the day....

quote:

when Mayor Cermak later died of his wounds, Zangara was retried and sentenced to death.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
It didn't appear to stop murders, though - executing him in six weeks. Even political murders. Kennedy, Kennedy, King, an attempt on Wallace, attempt on Ford, attempt on Reagan. And how many other murders?

I don't think executions deter murderers. Maybe there are other reasons to execute murderers, but I don't think they deter. Murderers don't generally draw up charts of pluses and minuses, and make rational decisions about murdering.

Yeah, I don't know about the deterrent effects, whether it has been actually studied or not, but in cases like this it should be swift.

Like the shooting yesterday - they caught the guy in the act, there is no need for extended proceedings. Trial next week, execution the following week - no need to house the guy for decades, he needs to be permanently removed from society.

In cases built on circumstantial evidence I can see withholding the ultimate punishment, but if you have DNA, video or the person is literally caught in the act - I'm OK with the death penalty - applied quickly.

quote:

I don't think executions deter murderers. Maybe there are other reasons to execute murderers, but I don't think they deter.

I've never heard of a murderer who committed murder after his execution.

They didn’t catch the guy in the act. He was arrested walking down the street, ~ a mile away, according to the cop who arrested him.

Death penalty doesn’t deter those who murder, but it may deter many who don’t. Maybe they are just procrastinators who never get around to it or something.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I don't think executions deter murderers. Maybe there are other reasons to execute murderers, but I don't think they deter.

Repeat offenders are pretty rare.

That is specific deterrence, and you are right. However, specific deterrence could be accomplished with a real life sentence.

Most people who want speedy executions are talking about general deterrence, or the deterrence of others. I don't think executions achieve much general deterrence.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I don't think executions deter murderers.

I gave a joking reply above, but now that I think about it, I don't know how you could possibly support your hypothesis.

We have absolutely no idea, none whatsoever, about how many people have NOT committed murder because they don't want to face the possibility the ultimate penalty.

quote:

That is specific deterrence, and you are right. However, specific deterrence could be accomplished with a real life sentence.

Most people who want speedy executions are talking about general deterrence, or the deterrence of others. I don't think executions achieve much general deterrence.

It's probably mixed. Certainly, it doesn't deter crimes of passion.
I think executions should be by hanging, in the public square. Every young male should attend one.
Then... it might just stick in the mind.

it would be interesting to find out how many on death row die of old age...

I don't give a crap about it being a deterrent

I do care about it being a punishment - and if its imposed it should be carried out within a reasonable time - 30 days is more than enough of a wait

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
I don't think executions deter murderers. Maybe there are other reasons to execute murderers, but I don't think they deter.

Repeat offenders are pretty rare.

That is specific deterrence, and you are right. However, specific deterrence could be accomplished with a real life sentence.

Most people who want speedy executions are talking about general deterrence, or the deterrence of others. I don't think executions achieve much general deterrence.

There is really no way to quantify that beyond opinion. We will never know how many people didn't do something as a result of fearing the consequences.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I gave a joking reply above, but now that I think about it, I don't know how you could possibly support your hypothesis.

We have absolutely no idea, none whatsoever, about how many people have NOT committed murder because they don't want to face the possibility the ultimate penalty.

And neither can supporters of execution offer any evidence that speedy executions achieve any general deterrence. (Not specific deterrence, to be sure.)

It would be very difficult to study the negative, wouldn't it?

However, murder rates continue to fall in the U.S. (which is a fact, even though there is a general belief that it is the opposite and that modern life is more dangerous), despite the fact that we execute fewer people than we did formerly.

In 1960, “The Untouchables” TV series had a 2-part episode called “The Unhired Assassin” in which this event was portrayed.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
murder rates continue to fall in the U.S. (which is a fact, even though there is a general belief that it is the opposite and that modern life is more dangerous), despite the fact that we execute fewer people than we did formerly.

It could be argued that we have executed those who were not deterred and murder rates are falling because those who are left (not executed) are the ones who were deterred.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
murder rates continue to fall in the U.S. (which is a fact, even though there is a general belief that it is the opposite and that modern life is more dangerous), despite the fact that we execute fewer people than we did formerly.

It could be argued that we have executed those who were not deterred and murder rates are falling because those who are left (not executed) are the ones who were deterred.

But murder rates have fallen quite noticeably in the recent years, when we have executed fewer people. And we have had time to raise a new crop of potential murderers, who were not alive to see a time when there were more executions. Remember that murders are generally committed by young people.

I think whatever side you are on here, you have to concede that reliable, objective evidence will be hard to find.

One disquieting development has been the discovery and popularity of scientific means to show who is a perp and who is innocent, DNA, and the number of those who have been released from death row or prison having been shown to be wholly innocent.

I doubt these are 100% foolproof and always reliable but they are such an improvement over what was available to use before.

BTW, I did know about the attempted assassination, having heard of it in an episode of The Untouchables on TV, probably in the early 60’s, and read in several accounts since.

I dont care if its a deterrent. Its a punishment that fits the crime.

The availability of DNA technology etc is IMO an argument in favor of having the death penalty AVAILABLE as punishment for certain crimes. Including but not limited to murder.