My oldest son is a senior in high school and for the last few months he has been teaching himself to play guitar at a buddy’s house. He has developed enough interest that he wants to buy a guitar and amp of his own.

He has made a couple of shopping trips to different music stores and tried a few different entry level guitars. He texted yesterday that he found a good deal “on a Jackson with the same pickups as the Epiphone so it has the same tone he likes”. I think retail on the guitar is $199.00. My first thought is that he is settling for a junk guitar because it’s affordable and he will outgrow it or it will fall apart.

I asked him if he was to pick something out that was a little nicer as a birthday or Christmas present what would he pick. He sent me a pic of an Epiphone SG Standard Pro with a price of $499.00. After a little research I see that these are made in China, uggg.

I know less than nothing about guitars. Don’t have a musical bone in my body. I want to support my son’s interest by gifting him a nice entry level guitar with the tone he likes that is not made in China.

What I have gathered from our conversation is that he likes the sound of dual humbucker pickups and wants a solid state amp. Not sure what that means but I am sure someone here will.

Anyway, I am looking for guidance from the experts here.

ETA description of the SG:

This SG Traditional PRO has ’60s style with powerful pickups and endless tonal options.
The Epiphone SG Traditional PRO recreates a legendary ’60s classic with updated touches for modern players. Part of the “Inspired by Gibson” collection, this SG keeps with tradition by using mahogany for the neck and body. A Kalamzoo headstock also gives a nod to the SG’s storied past.

The Trad PRO SG sports dual Alnico Classic PRO humbuckers. Alnico V magnets provide more output; expect vintage tones with a serious bite and tight bass response. Push/pull pots split each pickup for single-coil sounds.

The Epiphone SG features a double-cutaway design, allowing full access to all 22 frets. A slim taper neck and rolled fretboard edges provide a comfortable and fast playing feel. Thanks to the LockTone tune-o-matic bridge and stopbar tailpiece, the Trad Pro can sustain even the wildest windmill strums.

Other features include an Indian laurel fretboard, plus a Graph Tech NuBone nut, which balances the sound from string to string.

Features
Mahogany body
Mahogany neck with slim taper profile, Indian laurel fretboard
Dual Epiphone Alnico Classic PRO humbuckers, coil-split
LockTone tune-o-matic bridge and stopbar tailpiece
Click or call to order your SG Traditional Pro today.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TXJIM,

Sounds like he's into the heavier rock music since he wants a guitar with humbuckers in it. They produce a crunchy, heavy sound.

I do not believe you will be able to get an American made guitar for less than $1,200 these days. Used to be that you could get American made guitars for $700.

However, do not discount the Epiphone guitars. Even though they're made in China, a good set up will have that guitar playing well.

The Epiphone Inspired By Gibson line guitars are very good guitars. I would not hesitate to rock this:

https://www.americanmusical.co...ware/p/EPI-EILC-LIST

You might even want to look into a used Gibson. The cost difference over a new Epiphone isn't that much more and if he's going to stick with it, the higher end guitar will definitely be worth it. I've been playing guitar since 1993.

As for amps, solid state is definitely the way to go for a beginner as I'm sure you don't want to spend $800 on a tube amp. Marshall, in my opinion, is one of the top amp makers for rock.

You forgot earplugs.

When my son started, we needed them. After a couple years, earplugs were no longer needed and we were asking him to turn his amp up a bit more.

Oh, and patience.

If you are totally against Epiphone because it is made in China, for a little more coin PRS makes guitars in Indonesia. Very nice.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/P...ric-Guitar-L79251.gc

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
You forgot earplugs.

Seems like anymore, all modern amps have a headphone jack. You missed the boat.

Honestly, as much as I hate to say it, you’re probably looking at Chinese guitar in that price range. The only major alternative is an Indonesian Ibanez, and I HIGHLY recommend he try out an Ibanez. Nobody makes a better beginner guitar, and that’s over the past twenty years and true today. Much tighter QC than Epiphone. Epiphone makes some guitars that are arguably as good as a Gibson (what they’re copies of), and the next one of the line could be a compete and total turd and there’s no way to know without looking it over. Same is true of Gibson, to a lesser extent. But if the SG is what really captures his imaginations it’s best to go with guitars that keep him interested, hands down, every time. Then again, if he likes a Jackson, he may very well like an Ibanez.

He’d have a jump on everyone with an Ibanez RG, and an Orange Micro Terror or Micro Dark and whatever cabinet he wants to run with it, from a 1x10 to a 4x12. Don’t let him judge it by the size, those things will get louder than you’re ok with, and yes, they have a headphone out. Tubes are better, period. Anymore, the last decade, they’ve been deemed obsolete because there’s amps that model others so well that you can have two dozen vintage amps in one unit. Kemper is the brand, way out of your budget. But unless you have the budget, tubes sound richer, have actual harmonics and response that solid state can’t properly emulate. With electric, the amp is as much an instrument as the guitar, and starting off with a tube amp will teach him that, rather than just having something that amplifies the sound. It’s hard to explain, it’s a feel thing he’ll develop.

Modern “tube” amps are often hybrids, combing a tube pre-amp section where you get a lot of the tone and feel, with a solid state power amp section, which means you can get a lot of gain on the front end without having to turn to amp up to the sound levels where it operates best. All-tube amps sound great turned up. Hybrid amps can sound great at any volume. Vox used to make a fantastic series of amps called the Valvetronix or VT that operated this way. Not sure if they still make them or if there’s a new version, but I sold a ton of those.

Take him to a Guitar Center and have him try stuff out for a few hours. Not just guitars, but amps and effects pedals, etc. the thing about playing at that age is, if he sticks with it, his gear is going to constantly evolve. I’ve lost track of how many guitars and amps I’ve owned over the last 24 years. Couldn’t even guess.

Thanks for the feedback so far. I see some used Gibson SG’s and some used Epiphone that look good What should I be concerned with when shopping used guitars?

I'm 100% with you on not buying made in China.

One of my main guitars is one that I built with mostly Fender made in Mexico parts and is well within your price range.

If your looking to buy for under $500, look for made in Canada, Mexico, or Indonesia. Much of the Korean and Japanese product is going to be around the same price as USA made.

That said, here are some to look at

https://www.sweetwater.com/sto...-24-tobacco-sunburst

Probably the number one choice, although a bit higher priced. Indonesia.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sto...bacco-brown-sunburst

Great guitar with Alnico pickups and coil split. Indonesia.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sto...-blackberry-sunburst

Very thin guitar. Neck might be a little wider and thinner than your son is used to. Indonesia.


https://www.sweetwater.com/sto...mn?cond=StadHTHBMNd1

Not really comparable to an SG, but I paid less than $500 for my Godin and it's a great guitar. Canada.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sto...c-guitar-trans-black

A classic Tele shape but with Alnico humbuckers, which are worth the money vs ceramic pickups. Indonesia.


https://www.musiciansfriend.co...oard-electric-guitar

A Fender with dual Alnico humbuckers. I prefer a Strat with dual humbuckers, but this is a higher priced option. Mexico.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
Thanks for the feedback so far. I see some used Gibson SG’s and some used Epiphone that look good What should I be concerned with when shopping used guitars?

Authenticity, modifications, truss rod or other major damage.

Set the guitar on your foot so you’re looking straight down the neck. The strings will be straight, so use them to compare how straight the neck is. Back-bowed (like a D shape with the strings being the straight part of the letter) is ok, as long as the truss rod still has some adjustment left in it. This will be a nut under a cover on the headstock with everything but some Fenders. If the neck is bowed the other way, that’s bad. Look at how both sides of the neck compare, if one side is straight and the other bowed in any direction, it’s warped and garbage. Also possible is to have low spots on the neck, generally closer to the body with Gibson type guitars. Bad neck angle is also a major problem you can encounter with set-neck guitars vs bolt-on. Most SG’s will be set-neck (smooth transition from the neck to the body) and most Fender Strats with be bolt-on - compare how the neck meets the body to see what I’m talking about. Set-neck guitars with bad angle are generally toast. Imagine instead of a D, you and a triangle, where the neck leans forward. Bolt-on guitars are really easy to fix, you unbolt it, shim it, reassemble.

Electronic problems are easily fixed, I wouldn’t let anything like that stop you from a good deal on a guitar. I’ve got two Les Pauls I competed gutted all the electronics out of when I got them, and replaced everything with top shelf and pickups I built.

Really, the big thing is the neck. Corroded hardware, junked electronics, loose this, that, and the other are all pretty easily ignored or fixed.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackTalonJHP:
Authenticity, modifications, truss rod or other major damage.

I'm going to disagree with the bolded part. Some mods can be garbage, some can be great. Most factory pickups suck. I stop short of saying "all" because there are some good ones, but they're the exception and not the rule. It's often the case that a used guitar for sale will be all-factory except the pickups have been swapped out. I wouldn't let this stop you unless he doesn't like the way the pickups sound. Nobody cares about factory pickups in a $500 guitar, let alone new pots, caps, or other wiring like push/push, push/pull add/split type stuff. If anything, those can be more desirable because the good stuff is already done for you.

I'd definitely go used. Some incredible bargains out there when people take up guitar and give up too soon.

Fractal Audio FM3 used ~$700

All amps and effects need … Modeling is the new world in Guitarland. Proficiency with computers is key in the modern music arena.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I'm going to disagree with the bolded part. Some mods can be garbage, some can be great.

I'm obviously talking about bad modifications. I've seen my share of guitar and amp home repair. I recently did a setup on an acoustic where the owner told me he tightened the truss rod as far as he could. Not really sure why. I questioned him about the neck relief and got a blank stare.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackTalonJHP:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I'm going to disagree with the bolded part. Some mods can be garbage, some can be great.

I'm obviously talking about bad modifications. I've seen my share of guitar and amp home repair. I recently did a setup on an acoustic where the owner told me he tightened the truss rod as far as he could. Not really sure why. I questioned him about the neck relief and got a blank stare.

Ouch.
/cringing

I’ll also agree with 6guns to look for used first. Out of several dozen that I’ve owned, exactly two were bought new, one by my wife for a wedding present to me and the other by me as a teenager, and I returned it about a week later.

Found a local used guitar listed for $500, see model and description below. Would these be “quality mods”? Is this guitar significantly better as it sits than the brand new Epiphone my son found at the shop for the same price?

Epiphone SG G-400 Custom Shop

“Got this brand new and had my luthier change the nut to graph tech, changed the pickups to Seymour Duncan Custom shop High Voltage PUPs, same ones Angus Young plays. Switchcraft switch and input jack. Professional setup and new strings. Plays and sounds like a dream. Out of the eight guitars I own, I find myself playing a Les Paul and an Epiphone Sheraton the most and trying to get rid of some of the great players that don’t get much use to pick up a new amp. I can drop the price if you want the Alnico Classic pick ups that came with it, they sound good and both have the quick connect wiring types.”

If the description is true then the answer is yes. The pickups are a few hundred $ by themselves. The nut isn't that much $ but the labor for install and setup adds to the value. The pots may also need work. Make sure the nut is cut correctly and the guitar plays well before buying. If you can get someone who knows guitars to look at it with you, that would be best.
As with buying anything used, I would have to see both guitars in person to compare.

Sounds like a quality upgrade to me too.

I have owned 5 or 6 Jay Turner guitars that are knock-offs go Fender or Gibson guitars. They have been great for the money. They included 2 Strats, 2 Les Pauls, 1 ES335 and 1 12 string. My brother, who owned a guitar store, recommended them. I bought most on eBay.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
… The only major alternative is an Indonesian Ibanez, and I HIGHLY recommend he try out an Ibanez. Nobody makes a better beginner guitar, and that’s over the past twenty years and true today. Much tighter QC than Epiphone. …

I definitely agree.

Does he want a guitar with a Floyd Rose or a fixed bridge? Even the cheap Floyds are really good and stable. Just get it set up, keep the same gauge of strings and change one at a time.

Lots of good advice here. I saw someone recommend the Ibanez RG series. That is a Big Bang for the buck and one that I traded away is on my list of guitars I should never have dealt.

If you are going to buy from a shop rather than from a private party you should have them run it through their service department for a good set up. Nothing kills interest in a new player than a lack of playability. If you purchase from a private party you should factor the cost of a good set up in to your offer.

I’m with BlackTalonJHP on his last post. If done right, those are quality, legit “upgrades.” The Switchcraft parts are telling, to me. Graphtec, I think is a tone killer, and eventually he’d do well to switch to a bone nut, but at least he shouldn’t have as much issues with tuning with a graphite nut.

I say that one is worth checking out in person.