SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Do you think people are wired differently? Hereditary or environmental?
Main Page The Lounge Do you think people are wired differently? Hereditary or environmental?Page 1 2
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Member |
We are shaped by DNA, nurturing and our environment. Ultimately. we are all so different because we have had different experiences which means we respond differently to exactly the same situation. ______________________________________________ Life is short. It’s shorter with the wrong gun… | |||
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semi-reformed sailor |
Yeah, I’m one of those guys, trauma doesn’t bother me. Several people remarked on it when I was a cop, at an especially gory wreck/homicide/suicide scene. Stuff never bothers me, still doesn’t. When I was a sailor I had to recover remains from boating accidents and plane wreck...slept well no bad dreams. I think it’s wired in me. I’ve had to have a fellow officer go sit in my car while I worked the wreck because he broke down. Not bagging on the guy, he just couldn’t do the work with what was going on around us. They had us go to the head shrinker and I flatly told the guy- it doesn’t bother me, the dept forced me to come, I’d like to leave now- this is my off duty day and I have shit to do. Head shrinker let me leave and cleared me fffd....the other guy has to go to about ten sessions. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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Dinosaur |
If you ask me it’s a logic vs feelings divide more than anything. | |||
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| Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
Both but to varying degrees in different people. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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| Experienced Slacker |
Also consider that it isn't guaranteed that you will react the same way every time. People change, and sometimes change back and forth. | |||
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| Member |
A friend of mine, Ken, met his future wife and quickly fell in love. She had been seeing someone else, but when she met Ken she dumped guy #1 who was a jerk. Unknown to her, she was a few weeks pregnant when she met Ken. Once they realized the pregnancy they decided to raise the kid as their first born. However kid #1 was exactly like his dad, constantly getting in trouble with school, the law, etc. In and out of juvie many times a year. He would steal from his parents whenever he could. They would never give kid #1 a key to the house because they knew he would steal anything of value. Kid #1 only met his dad a couple of times growing up, but they were identical intemperment, etc. Ken's next kids were his biological kids and were super nice and positive in every way. So in this example, kid #1 inherited his father's attitude and problems, and it was all genetics. -c1steve | |||
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Member |
I think it is both. There is no doubt in my mind that genetics factor heavily into a person's make-up. Seeing my two siblings as they grew up and became adults, it is hard to imagine that they were both raised in the same home by the same parents. They are two very different people in the way they behave and many of the things they value, although they do share some common values that reflect our parents and our household. Environment definitely plays a part in the inculcation of values and how one handles life. We see the differences in educational achievement, with corresponding life achievement, by race, but these differences correspond directly to percentage of intact, nuclear families and the value they place on education. So this difference is better explained by the culture, rather than something as superficial as skin color. Back to the point of genetics, and the main point of your post; several years ago I read that the incidence of PTSD among SOCOM is much lower, as a percentage, than the regular military. If this is accurate, it is as if there is some kind of "warrior" gene that allows these men to better handle the ugliness of combat. . | |||
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Member |
The most simple answer is that the mental fortitude required to become a member of these highly praised teams usually means these members are simply more mentally tough than your standard active duty service member. You might be surprised at the number of "mental days" taken by my coworkers. Along with the things they claim are "hard on them mentally", having never deployed, served in a combat zone or anything except sit at a desk. Think of the amount of people that couldn't handle boot camp and had to be sent home, those people could perhaps grow to understand what it means to be resilient, but imagine they didn't have the time or that never happened before being put into combat. If you can't handle boot camp you can't handle much else. If you can handle BUDS or similar training then you're likely more apt to handle adversity in other form. I should note too that I think the Bravado and culture of some groups means less people admit to facing difficulties with PTSD than the average service member. That's not to say what I said before is incorrect but is worth mentioning. 10 years to retirement! Just waiting! | |||
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| Member |
That's a really great point. . | |||
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goodheart |
Well, when I get interested in a topic here I start looking on the web. There's a huge amount of stuff on the topic of resilience, a lot of it garbage, of course. Here's something I found interesting, it's from the Harvard Center on the Developing Child (link below):
Link: Harvard Center on the Developing Child You can see from the above that if one wanted to develop a society of resilient individuals, then what is going on in our education system is the opposite of that. Who ever heard of a resilient snowflake? _________________________ “ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne | |||
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| Member |
very true plus -- how one handles 'the moment' may be different from how one handles 'the after effects'. which is a whole other conversation. US combat arms is good at indoctrinating mental toughness. it gets more and more pointed the higher up the scale you go. first Infantry then Airborne Infantry then Ranger then SF then the unnamed ones who show up in unmarked uniforms with gear you've never seen before (I'm not inferring this is a linear pathway -- just a 'hierarchy' of mental strength / fortitude based on what I know about the assessment process...) weeding out bit by bit at each level. (and there are many damn tough men at EACH level...) ------------------------------------------------ Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. | |||
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Truth Wins |
Hereditary or environmental? I don't know. But it's there and I think it is physiological, not just mental. I deal with people every day that have had tragedy in their lives. It's what I do for living. I speak to people on almost a daily basis and it never ceases to amazes me the differences I encounter. I've talked to wives and mothers that have just lost a husband or a son in a tragic accident and they operate like it's just another day. No detectable emotion. They go on as if a leg fell off their coffee table. In contrast, I speak to people who are so distraught that they can't deal with the situation and have to have someone else do it for them. If I speak to them years later, they still burst into tears at the memory. I don't think it has anything to do with how much the deceased was loved. No doubt they all loved their deceased. It's something to do with they way they are wired. Not mentally, but physiologically. I don't think someone is necessarily born that way, but some are, I'm certain of it. I've know men since boyhood that became gay and never had any signs in their youth they would turn out that way. I had one childhood friend that was so obviously gay in childhood there was no doubt that he would turn out gay in adulthood. He was gay as hell even at 7 or 8 years old. I'm sure he was born with it. Addictions can rewire brains. Not just drugs addiction either. A sexually normal man in his twenties that uses pornography too much can literally rewire his brain so that he can't achieve an erection without either looking at it or thinking of it. I'm sure it works that way for many over-exposure to certain stimuli. Aggression, politics, etc. I'm convinced there is a physiological difference between conservatives and progressives. It's not merely a difference of opinion. It's the way they are wired. And that's why reason, by and large, can't overcome the differences. _____________ "I enter a swamp as a sacred place—a sanctum sanctorum. There is the strength—the marrow of Nature." - Henry David Thoreau | |||
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| Member |
What’s for lunch? Seriously though I think it is not just nature and nurture. I believe it is personal mind set. | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
You guys rock. You are hitting all the high points of what I was hoping to discuss, and see your opinions. | |||
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Member |
. A large medical study of 200,000 people revealed that PTSD has a strong genetic component... Article is below, basically DNA testing can determine if a person is susceptible to PTSD following traumatic events. I expect the military would have an interest in this study. https://health.ucsd.edu/news/r...netic-component.aspx Study highlights: The team used the data to conduct a genome-wide association study (GWAS), using statistical tests to measure the effect of common genetic variants at millions of points across the genome on someone's likelihood of developing PTSD. The analysis uncovered DNA variants at six loci that were strongly associated with PTSD risk. Three of the six loci were specific to certain ancestral backgrounds — two European and one African. Three were only detected in men. The six loci hint that inflammatory and immune mechanisms may be involved in the disorder, which is consistent with findings from previous studies. Genome-wide, a substantial number of variants had some level of association with PTSD, showing the disorder to be highly polygenic. The researchers concluded that PTSD's heritability — the level of influence genetics has on the variability of PTSD risk in the population — is between five and 20 percent, with some variability by sex. These findings held true across different ancestral groups. As many behavioral traits and psychiatric disorders have some shared genetic basis , the team also looked for genetic correlations between PTSD and 235 other disorders, behaviors and physical traits. They found significant overlap with 21, including depression, schizophrenia, neuroticism, insomnia, asthma and coronary artery disease. "Similar to other mental disorders, the genetic contribution to PTSD correlates with that for many other traits," Koenen said. "Further research is needed to determine what this means — whether some of the same genes that influence risk for PTSD also influence risk for other diseases like, for example, depression." When applied to data from the Million Veterans Program , which is studying how genes, lifestyle and military exposures affect health and illness, people with the highest scores had a significant increase in re-experiencing traumatic memories — a key PTSD symptom. . | |||
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| Member |
As I see it, if you are going to throw a giant tarp over all the people in the U.S., 80% have very close to the same wiring . 33% have high end components connected to those wires Another 33% have very inferior even faulty components, And 33% manage very well with what they possess. The brains are the biggest , most difficult hurdle. Making the same mistakes for 500 years puts a bad light on the humans Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency. Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first | |||
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| Flow first, power later. |
There s a really interesting movie somewhat related to this - Three Identical Strangers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik..._Identical_Strangers | |||
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| Eye on the Silver Lining |
This conversation is very interesting to me. Per the OP, I believe it’s both, but I feel like heredity might take the lead. Sjtill, I took a look at that link, but I’d sure like more information on creating a resilient child. I’ve always felt my son needs to be more resilient, but struggle on how to go about it. __________________________ "Trust, but verify." | |||
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| half-genius, half-wit |
'Feiceann beirt fhear tuar ceatha difriúil.' Each man sees a different rainbow. When the shit came down, as it often did in my life, I sucked it up and got on with it. Many 'tours' in Northern Ireland during the Troubles provided me with enough horror to last me ten lifetimes, but here I am today, still smiling. Our lives, me and Mrs tac's, have not been the easiest - a son who died young, and a severely-handicapped daughter after that, and life in general. We still have our health and a small amount of wealth, our own home, unlike any of MY family before me. I can, however, still close my eyes and see a child's hand buried up to the knuckles in the broken-off stump of a telegraph pole, and smell that awful stench that is the aftermath of a quarter-ton culvert bomb under a family in a SUV. I put it and keep it in a special place, away from my normal life. Compartmentation is how I deal with it. | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Do you think people are wired differently? Hereditary or environmental?
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