quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Code by year of construction:

Prior to 1977 +/- bath outlets were free for all.

After 1977, must be GFI protected, usually but not always grouped with exterior, garage, and unfinished spaces.

After 1997ish the setup I described regarding his 2017 house.

Was yours built before 1980? Or did a previous homeowner do unpermitted work?

Keep in mind that simply because a home was built before or after a particular year, that doesn't mean that any particular NEC was in effect, or that it is even in effect currently. For example, my state, Utah, doesn't require AFCI breakers anymore. Other states, like Kansas, are still governed by the 2002 code, and this is before considering local amendments. You cannot just assume that somebody wasn't following code or that a homeowner did a hack job, or that a structure will meet a certain standard simply based on its year of construction. It could have been completely compliant to their local requirements at the time, irrespective of the contemporary national code.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
You cannot just assume ... that a homeowner did a hack job ...

Except when it obviously was a hack job.

E.g.:



Observe the in-wall wiring that takes a shortcut, flying through the air with the greatest of ease.

Done correctly:



As I was pulling the old wire, I looked at it, thought "This doesn't look like 12 ga. to me, but...?", went back upstairs to double-check the breaker I'd thrown, and...



Went back to the wire that fed the box from which the wire I was re-running came, and it was also 14 AWG.

I've no idea how far back that snafu ran. Didn't think to check what was going into the breaker. Didn't matter. There was only so far back I could reasonably fix this, so it's now a 15A circuit.

In the process of fixing that, I ran into this:



"So?" you might ask. Well, those sistered studs weren't properly sistered, so they'd shifted. They'd shifted so badly I had to run a multi-tool blade in there and cut that wire to get it out from either side.

Everything the bozo original owner did has been like that. Every. Last. Thing.

quote:

Keep in mind that simply because a home was built before or after a particular year, that doesn't mean that any particular NEC was in effect,

That's why I used +/- and ish in my reply. GFI usage is pretty uniform +/-3 years, other things it all depends on the AHJ. Even in my state things are adopted and enforced differently from county to county.

All I know from reading this is that I want Skins2881 to be my electrician.

Interesting about the code.

Now I’m going to double check everything, but as I assessed it the outlet I was working on was the only GFCI on a circuit that covered two bedrooms, a bathroom, an open loft area, and that single outlet in a laundry room.

There is one outlet in the bathroom mentioned, not a GFCI.

There is another outlet in the laundry room (washer) that is GFCI too.

So on the problem outlet, there are something like 4 ceiling lights (one with a fan), and 17ish other outlets.

If I’m wrong, I’m only wrong by 2 rooms, so say 2 lights (one with a fan) and 9 outlets.

Fortunately only one of those rooms gets regular use.

Maybe I misunderstood. So the bathroom outlet works fine and it's a general lighting circuit (meaning controlling lights and plugs in bedrooms/hallways) that has the issue? Those should be AFCI protected not GFI protected.

So , has it been repaired ?

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
So , has it been repaired ?

I replaced it with a new one yesterday afternoon. So far so good.

Skins, you probably didn’t misunderstand…I probably just don’t know what I’m talking about.

The circuit has at least two bedrooms and a bathroom on it. Bathroom has a single plug, which is not GFI. I’ll have to check to verify if there’s another room plus the loft area on the circuit as well (I was flipping a lot of breakers trying to figure this out the other day, but the GFI outlet is in the laundry room, on the opposite side of a wall from an outlet in the loft).

Either way, the laundry room is on a separate breaker. But this random GFI outlet is the end of the line from the above, and the laundry room is across the house from the bathroom. And the only symptom of whatever the issue was, was that end of the line GFI tripping and not resetting.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

Was yours built before 1980? Or did a previous homeowner do unpermitted work?

My house looks like Ensigmatic's house. It was built by a committee of volunteer monkeys on crack in multiple stages from the late 1800's thru 1975 or so.

Every time I have to repair something, it's "Oh, boy! What am I going to find this time? And, how much extra time will it take to rip out the existing work and redo it?"

quote:

Skins, you probably didn’t misunderstand…I probably just don’t know what I’m talking about.

Well I took this thread way off course. At least everyone got a lesson on the iterations of GFI codes over the years.

Still there shouldn't be a need for a GFI if the bedroom circuit is on a combo AFCI/GFCI breaker, but no need to further go off track.

Glad it's working for you now.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:


And I keep finding new wonders. Wonders such as this...



when I went to replace a ceiling light in the kitchen, last year.

Yes: That is exactly the way I found it when I removed the old fixture. It's obvious that it had been connected once-upon-a-time. Apparently somebody saw fit not to bother re-connecting it at some point.

At least you have a ground wire!

My house was built in '51 and has an early form of Romex cable for the most part, there's runs here and there that appear to date from maybe the 70's and 80's with ground but most of it is this black or silver fabric sheathed Romex with either NO ground wire whatsoever or a tiny one like 18 gauge and it looks like the electricians didn't know what to do with it. It's sometimes wrapped around cable clamps on the outside of metal surface mount boxes but that's it.

These guys were like "what is this strange bare copper wire doing here in this here newfangled cable?? Mehhh....just ignore it!"