quote:

Originally posted by ASKSmith:
This is a dispute between my parents and their neighbors, who live out of state.

My parents bought their house in 1990. Had a survey done. New neighbors moved in, and put a firepit in. My parents got another survey done, and it does show the fire pit is encroaching their property by 1.98ft. It is basically centered on the property line. I’m not sure of their county’s ordnances, but I know some have statues that any structure muse be a certain amount of feet away from the property line.

This has become a nightmare for my parents. It sounds like threats or intent of threat have been made by the husband/boyfriend towards my parents. My parents have made upgrades to their backyard, all of which are well within their property boundary. A fish pond, a fence to keep their dog in their yard, as well as keeping the neighbors kids out of the fish pond.

They are in the process of obtaining a lawyer, but what can they do in the meantime? They have concerns of their dog/fish being poisoned, vehicles damaged, etc... I’ve suggested they immediately put up cameras, post NO TRESPASSING signs, document everything, and call the police ASAP with any negative interactions with the neighbors. My parents are pushing 80y/o, and I’m not sure how old the neighbors are, but they have young kids.

They have contacted the fire marshall twice, and he told them to call back anytime the neighbors had a fire. So they have, and that is why they got the second survey done. I’m going to suggest they call the fire Marshall again, and send a copy of the new survey, which clearly shows the fire pit is on their property. There are trees directly above the pit, and that is the cause of concern for my parents. The neighbors are burning trash and using accelerant (as my dad calls it) to get the fires going, and the flames are coming into contact with tree branches on my parents property.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
I talked to a real estate attorney. He said I could pay to have a licensed surveyor shoot the line and it wouldn't make a bit of difference, the guy could still continue to do whatever the hell he wanted and I wouldn't have any legal recourse. All he had to do was say the surveyor was wrong. Bottom line, I could spend $50,000 or $100,000 "defending" my line and not accomplish a damned thing.

quote:

Originally posted by joel9507:

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
I talked to a real estate attorney. He said I could pay to have a licensed surveyor shoot the line and it wouldn't make a bit of difference, the guy could still continue to do whatever the hell he wanted and I wouldn't have any legal recourse. All he had to do was say the surveyor was wrong. Bottom line, I could spend $50,000 or $100,000 "defending" my line and not accomplish a damned thing.

Assuming you got title insurance when you bought the property, talk to the title company. What you pay for with title insurance is for them to clear title issues, and if they can't give you what the deed you insured calls for, they open their wallet to litigate/settle/compensate. Some policies cover boundary disputes (ALTA?) and other's don't. The title company will know. Probably worth a nickle to call.

quote:

Originally posted by joel9507:
The other things is, depending on the 'easement' laws in their state, letting it slide for too long might wind up making it impossible to address later.

The concept of 'easement' is something that seems incredible when you first hear about it, but essentially if someone is not prevented from doing something on your property for long enough, under 'easement' they eventually gain the right to continue and the owner cannot then prevent them from doing so.

Ask your parents to bring this up with your lawyer - they'll know how the easement rules in their state impact your parents' options as to how to proceed.

In my case, nobody in the neighborhood has fences - we're mostly in wooded hilly lots ranging from 2-10 acres, maybe 5 miles out of town, so the boundaries are invisible. Well, the house next door has a 5 acre lot, but due to the property slope, the house got built right against the property line at the highest level elevation on the property. Large lot, with no side yard on one side, and 5 acres to the other (down the slope.)

The original owners knew this, but subsequent owners (why don't people get surveys done when they buy houses?) have all seemed to think that their house is in the middle of their land, which, although untrue in this case, is actually a semi-reasonable assumption.

To wit: One new neighbor in that house had construction materials piled on my property when doing renovations, and heavy equipment going through the trees in my property taking it from the street to the site. Another actually started landscaping my backyard to make walking paths and a play area.

Fortunately my county has a geographic information system (GIS) that has property boundaries overlaid on aerial photos of every property. When I sent them links and screenshots showing where their land actually was, making it clear they had essentially no side yard on my side of their house, and a huge side yard down the slope, the issues stopped.

Hopefully a dose of information will help the discussions in your parents' case, as well.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
I don't want to be a wet towel, but I think you should be aware of this:

I had exactly the same problem. A "neighbor" encroaching on my property. I said the line was here, he said the line was there.

I talked to a real estate attorney. He said I could pay to have a licensed surveyor shoot the line and it wouldn't make a bit of difference, the guy could still continue to do whatever the hell he wanted and I wouldn't have any legal recourse. All he had to do was say the surveyor was wrong. Bottom line, I could spend $50,000 or $100,000 "defending" my line and not accomplish a damned thing.

He said the best thing for me to do was put up a fence where I said the line was and make the other guy prove I was wrong.

This is in Maine, laws may be clearer or more enforceable where you are. Also, there's always the possibility that the advice I was given was complete bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

Probably reasonable advice. You'd eventually have to sue to establish the line, and that could easily cost many tens of thousands. It isn't that the law isn't clear, it is just that it is easy to allege facts that make a claim that has to be resolved via litigation if the other property owner isn't reasonable. And sometimes there are genuine disputes, because the survey and land records are not always as clear as we wish they were. That is a problem with litigation. It is expensive.