SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Introducing 'Roem,' Israel’s new, state-of-the-art artillery piece
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Introducing 'Roem,' Israel’s new, state-of-the-art artillery piece The new Roem system saw its first operational firing in June and will be deployed with an IDF unit in the coming year. By SETH J. FRANTZMAN JULY 12, 2024 17:03 Updated: JULY 12, 2024 17:17 For years, Israel has been working on rolling out a new type of futuristic artillery that is supposed to help transform the Israel Defense Forces into a superior fighting machine. The new weapon, named Roem, is a large gun that sits on the back of a wheeled vehicle, in contrast to the current Israeli artillery that consists of the M109 howitzer on a vehicle with treads. The immediate difference may not be obvious. It still fires the same caliber shells for instance, but it is part of a larger investment in new technology in the IDF. Think of this like moving to F-35 warplanes from older jet fighters. In June, the IDF gave a preview of what the new system means for the military. A video it produced and an article on its website said that the new cannon was fired by IDF gunners for the first time in operational use. It is “the first cannon in the world capable of automatic firing,” the army said at the time. “The new cannon brings with it new and groundbreaking capabilities to the battlefield, significantly increases the rate of fire, allows firing at longer ranges than the existing cannon in use in the IDF today, enables independent and fast movement on roads, and has high movement capabilities in the field,” it said. In essence, what this means is automating the systems that otherwise would be done by soldiers, such as loading the cannon. These are basic aspects of what artillery men did for hundreds of years. FIRST-EVER automatic-firing cannon. (credit: IDF)Enlrage image FIRST-EVER automatic-firing cannon. (credit: IDF) Israel’s Chief of Artillery Brig.-Gen. Yair Natans has praised the system for bringing new capabilities that enable close cooperation with ground forces. It will change how artillery is used. “We have taken another significant step toward the addition of the Roem to the diverse fire capabilities that corps commanders use to assist the maneuvering forces,” he said in June. TO LEARN more about the new gun, I went down to a base in central Israel to speak to the man who was the head of the department for the Roem, which means “thunderous.” Maj. Nate Franz is the head of the department of artillery in the IDF. In his modest office, he has a small model of the new Roem, the kind that might look like a toy for kids to play with. He explains the concept behind the system. It’s basically placing a large gun on a truck chassis with wheels. This is similar to what Israel did with the new Eitan APC. It moved from the treaded Namer (“tiger”), which is heavy, to the lighter Eitan (“strong”) which has large wheels. Wheels enable you to drive faster and on roads. Tank treads churn up the environment and are slower. While the drivers sit at the front of the truck, the automated gun is on the rear and can move to face a number of directions. Three soldiers sit in the cabin of the truck, and the shooting is done automatically. This is different from the crew of an M109, where you’d have a half dozen men operating the cannon, moving the munitions by hand, and putting in the shells and charges and prepping them for fire. In essence, an M109, even though it looks like a tank, is basically how people have used artillery cannons since the time of the Napoleonic wars. Now computers and robotics will do a lot of the work. The new cannon is faster because it is automated. It can fire eight of its 155mm rounds per minute. That is twice the rate of a modern M109. When the Roem enters service, it will be deployed with one of the artillery battalions of Israel’s regular forces. This is likely to happen in the 282nd Artillery Brigade, which is part of the 36th Division. According to soldiers I spoke to in the 405th Battalion of that unit, they may be among the first to use the system. Even when the Roem is rolled out, it will take time, and the M109s will still be used by many artillery units. more: https://www.jpost.com/israel-n...-news/article-809897 _________________________ | ||
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Drill Here, Drill Now |
Here is a 4 minute YouTube on the Roem test in Israel Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer. | |||
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| Looking at life thru a windshield  |
Going to have to do some more reading, but First Automatic? Seems to me it does the same thing the Swedish Archer and German Panzerhaubitze 2000 do. Good video Tator | |||
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Marketing hype. Maybe we should retrofit all our Abrams tanks with wheels?  Track vs. Wheeled - it depends on the requirements. There are also things a tracked vehicle can do that a wheeled vehicle cannot. Eight rounds per minute if one does not change the tube elevation according to the video. I'd love to see it shoot eight rounds per minute all at maximum elevation. Notice no video of how the automated cannon works to load and fire. How does the tube get swabbed after each shot? _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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Lost |
The exact quote from the video is, "With the autoloader functioning, a rapid rate of fire of 8 rounds per minute can be achieved without needing to adjust the elevation." Actually, what does that mean? Why would you need to adjust the elevation? | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
Yup, marketing hype, all right. Q | |||
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Void Where Prohibited |
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is not room for the shell to come all the way out if the barrel is elevated above a certain level. At least with some designs. "If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards | |||
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| Lost |
Ahh, the Browning system. That makes sense. | |||
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If you want to put rounds on target all at the same time from the same howitzer. Supposedly, it can do this with 5 rounds. It would require different propellant increments. _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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| Lost |
That's interesting. Is there a tactical advantage of having them all hit at the same time? | |||
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When the first round lands and explodes, everyone runs and dives for cover. Thirty seconds (or so) later another one, then another one. But everyone has already taken cover from the first round exploding, minimizing the lethal effects of the subsequent rounds. Now, think of five rounds landing within a few seconds of each other at roughly the same point of impact (given some dispersion). Call it 5x the lethality of that single first round. All from just one howitzer. _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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| half-genius, half-wit |
This article appears to have been written for the average ten-year-old. Is the writer taking the micky? 'In essence, an M109, even though it looks like a tank, is basically how people have used artillery cannons since the time of the Napoleonic wars.' Really? Tracked, self-propelled artillery didn't happen until well in to WW2, principally by the Germans and russians. The Napoleonic Wars ended in June 1815. | |||
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| half-genius, half-wit |
AS90, the British Army's big hitter since 1992, was shooting almost the same as this back then - Please read - The AS-90 ("Artillery System for the 1990s"), known officially as Gun Equipment 155 mm L131, is an armoured self-propelled artillery used by the British Army. It can fire standard charges up to 24.7 km (15.3 mi) using 39-calibre long barrel and 30 km (19 mi) with 52-caliber long barrel.[2] The maximum rate of fire is 3 rounds in 10 seconds (burst); 6 per minute for 3 minutes (intense); and 2 per minute for 60 minutes (sustained). Rounds from a six-gun battery were re-aimed and time of flight adjusted while the projectile was still in the barrel to arrive simultaneously on target. The same goes for SPH2000, the Bundeswehr's large SP gun - even faster than AS90, and much-loved by Ukrainian gunners. also, please look up Archer, another truck-mounted automatic 155mm gun built by Bofors in Sweden and stop-gapping in the British Army - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srsPudxRa3w PS - no barrel swabbing. | |||
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Not necessary. In Nam, I called in several "battery 5" with our M102, 105mm howitzer - which is five rounds per gun as fast as possible on a single target. Once used a battery of M109 SP 155mm to dump a bunch of rounds and with the frequency of impact, I doubt if any swabbing was done. I do not know about modern systems, but if the ones we used 55 years ago had that flexibility, then I hope we still have it. My MOS was 13E and what I find interesting is if they use a single powder charge and compensate with elevation or still work with the multiple charge bags. Any by the way, dropping rounds from several location at the same time of impact is "TOT" - Time On Target - but you have to be careful of the fuses used. . “Leave the Artillerymen alone, they are an obstinate lot. . .” – Napoleon Bonaparte http://poundsstudio.com/ | |||
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With semi-fixed ammo (used in 105mm howitzers), swabbing is not required. As an XO of a 155 battery, the powder chambers were swabbed after each round fired, to ensure no "hot" pieces of the bagged propellant were left behind to 'possibly' ignite the next bag charge upon insertion. This was typically M3A1 (green bag) and M4A2 (white bag) propellant we used in training. Now, whether this is true for MACS charges, I don't know. My experience was with bagged charges. The floppy bagged charges certainly can't be used in an automated howitzer. It will depend on the range to target. For example, if firing at the very maximum range of the howitzer, only a single elevation/charge combination will work, so even two rounds at the same time won't be possible w/one howitzer. Same for the extreme minimum range. So, the "5 rounds at the same time" is somewhere in a 'sweet range' middle with a combination of elevation and charge changes. It may also include a combination of high (>800 mils) and low (<800 mils) angle fire. A typical demo at Fort Sill and Fort Benning was the 105mm M102 howitzer TOT with impact in visible range of people in bleachers. One round was fired at high angle/low charge, the tube then rapidly cranked down to a very low angle and the second round fired at a higher charge, timed to hit at the same time. _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Introducing 'Roem,' Israel’s new, state-of-the-art artillery piece
Main Page The Lounge Introducing 'Roem,' Israel’s new, state-of-the-art artillery piece© SIGforum 2024