quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
You can also sell them to a FFL.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
You can also sell them to a FFL.

Okay, what am I missing....I thought all the fun stuff, war trophy or not, had to be registered by 1968. And if something popped up after that, it was incumbent on the finder to figure out if it had been registered. And it had to be registered to sell.

quote:

So you found an MG in the attic ...

The usual LE or museum response is to register any MG with an unknown history that they come across on a Form 10.

DO NOT EVER USE A FORM 10 FOR ANYTHING.

There are two reasons for this:

1. Once on a Form 10, that gun is 100% completely and totally NON-transferable. I know of one case where a .410 H&R Handy Gun was put on a Form 10 once it was donated to a PD. Guess what papers we found THREE WEEKS LATER? Yup, the original 1968 amnesty registration paperwork.

Yes, thank God that it wasn't a machine gun. But still, a formerly transferable piece of history is now even more restricted than a post-86 DS MG.

2. A Form 10 is for registration BY the PD. Non-PD use of the form isn't legitimate. Furthermore, since it's the form used to register an otherwise contraband firearm, you're essentially admitting to the feds that you have a contraband firearm. It is generally poor practice to admit to a federal law enforcement agency that you're in violation of any law, much less a felony-level law.

Okay, moving away from the F10, anybody who finds themselves in possession of a potentially undocumented firearm is in a legally precarious situation. I am NOT an attorney, nor do I claim to be one. This is not legal advice.

So what am I? I am a SOT who hates seeing history destroyed, restricted through F10 registration, or simply driven underground unnecessarily.

Let me say this a second time: It's not proper for me to offer legal advice because I am not an attorney.

This is what many of my clients have done:

1. They put the firearm away. It doesn't go out, doesn't go to shoots, and nobody is told about the firearm or firearms' existence.

2. They search through each sheet of paper, under every rock, behind every drawer (TWO sets of papers were found behind or under drawers in old dressers), etc. Remember that registration forms are tax papers. Many folks filed them with their old taxes, not with their gun stuff. So don't just dump your deceased relatives' ancient taxes! Search, search, SEARCH. Treat this like looking for a lost winning lottery ticket. In a way, it IS–– find papers and suddenly a weird questionable gun becomes very, very valuable.

3. The search continues. This search part is put in twice because my previous clients spent twice the time searching. They tore into that attic, the garage, and through every individual file in every file cabinet, in every sock and junk drawer... THEY SPENT GREAT TIME AND TOOK GREAT CARE.

One other point- while it's helpful to look for a strange "stamped" legal document, NOT EVERYTHING WAS STAMPED. Your relative may have papered that gun as a DEWAT, or "deactivated war trophy." Those transfer TAX FREE. No tax means no stamp. Or, if it was live, it could have been papered during the 1968 Amnesty. I don't believe that those 1968 amnesty forms had stamps either. Finally, the old stamp may have fallen off over time. So while it is helpful to "look for a form with a stamp," you and your well-meaning helpers could inadvertently toss the registration papers aside because they are unstamped. This is going to take TIME. My successful clients STOPPED, READ, AND ANALYZED EVERYTHING.

4. Okay, so no papers? And you've searched? REALLY searched? Like looking for a misplaced winning lottery ticket searched? The next step most people take is to contact a helpful SOT and/or a NFA-FRIENDLY attorney. Look, there are plenty of attorneys out there. Too many! You do NOT want to pick an attorney who just wants rid of the firearm or, worse yet, an anti-freedom anti-firearm attorney. A friendly SOT may be able to give recommendations. Or ask on firearms-friendly web boards. My clients had no need to tell the whole story–– they just asked for a "gun friendly attorney - bonus for one who is into NFA/Class III or knows more about that." With any luck, you'll get to meet one who even has a few NFA items of their own! Any how, once you get to meet with the attorney or that friendly SOT (do NOT take the firearm to their office!), folks fully explain the situation. They ask that attorney or that friendly SOT to help contact ATF to determine if the firearm is papered. FAMILIES NEVER DO THE CONTACTING THEMSELVES.

The friendly SOT and/or attorney will call ATF's NFA Branch. They will give the firearm's make, model, type (MG, SBR, DD, etc.) AND COMPLETE SERIAL NUMBER. ATF will punch this into their computer. If it's registered, hooray! If not, there's a problem.

5. Assuming the firearm is NOT registered, wise families repeat steps #2 and #3. ATF lost plenty of registrations over the years. Should the family find the paperwork, they can prove that it's registered, fix the registry, and life is good. If there's still no paperwork (and the family really, REALLY put your heart and soul into #2 and #3), the firearm is contraband. Contraband can be donated to an acceptable museum or government entity. Some folks have been able to claim a tax write-off. If no one wants the firearm, most folks completely strip the receiver of all parts. The receiver is then either surrendered, torch-cut, or otherwise destroyed.

6. Families who find paperwork generally have to treat the firearm in accordance with any will. If someone is named in the will, that person gets that firearm tax-free on a Form 5. ATF bends over backwards to help estates with the disposition of legally papered firearms. No, seriously! It's in their (ATF's) best interests to do this to keep the firearm from ending up at a yard sale or sold randomly at a gun show. That said, most families find it in their best interests to keep that SOT handy to assist with the sale, the necessary paperwork, etc. And if nobody is named in a will, the firearm will transfer on a tax-paid Form 4 or, if a DEWAT, on a tax-free Form 5.

I've written more than I expected. Please accept my apologies for the excess verbiage, but hopefully this helps folks down the road. Thank you to everybody who recommended me as a resource. I am grateful that you would trust me enough to recommend me for assistance.

Sincerely,

Mike

P.S. I'd like to give one clarification on the Form 10 topic. I said to never use a Form 10 for anything. This means *you*. It's fine for a museum, PD, etc., to use one after all other avenues are exhausted.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
Hire an attorney, give it to them to turn in to the ATF anonymously.
.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInAR:
I feel like I know the answer to this theoretical question, but I want to submit it to the forum hive mind.

If one were to come across some WW2-era MG/SMG in a barn, what are their options?

My somewhat limited knowledge says there are two: Keep it tucked away, hidden, fired only on the darkest of nights hundreds of miles from civilization knowing full well you are committing a federal felony, or surrender it to...someone?

If I understand it right, to be legal you had up to 1968 to get it registered. After that, you are SOL.

Is getting it rendered inop an option?

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Rogue's post is the one.

quote:

Originally posted by architect:
Are C&R full-autos exempt from NFA/GCA regulations?

Assuming the OP is not prohibited, obtaining a C&R license might just be the easiest (legal) way to go.