quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:

You want the medical reasons fat is bad. I can’t give that. I can say the risks for everything are much higher. That’s pretty statistically trackable. Covid has destroyed obese people. The % of that comorbidity I believe is in the 80 percentile. That’s not good odds.

That’s precisely the crux of my question. For something like COVID, is it the obesity itself that is the problem or is it the other issues that often accompany obesity?

The joint issue is a clear issue, and my knees can attest to that.

There is an extremely strong correlation between obesity and poor health. Are there exceptions, sure, but given enough time, even most of those probably develop issues.

Edit: direct answer, no it isn’t the weight other than possible musculoskeletal issues. It is the havoc it wreaks on your body systems.

If I at a healthy weight walked around every day wearing 60lbs of combat gear 24/7 I wouldn’t get type 2 diabetes and heart disease.

I am not a Doctor, but I think the PRIMARY determining factor of health problems is genetics. Obesity (BMI 30-39.9), morbid obesity (BMI 40-49.9), and super-morbid obesity (BMI 50+) are all certainly “bad”, but I believe the level of bad and complications as a result are based more on an individuals genetic background than the excess weight.

My guess is someone who really suffers from obesity “related” medical issues would likely have medical issues even without being obese (main exceptions being type 2 diabetes).

My history…

I was always a “chubby” kid, went off to the Marines at 185 lbs. (5’7” BMI of 28 “Overweight”) and came home from boot camp at 160 lbs (BMI of 25, still “Overweight”) I don’t think anyone who say me at 160 lbs would think I was overweight. In my young and active years I usually stayed right around 170-175 lbs. A bit on the “heavy” side for my height, but no problems, within USMC standards, all good.

When I got out, the easy life and bad habits, I gradually packed on the pounds, eventually to a high of 365 at age 46. From there I lost some weight but was always in the 300-340 range. As for health issues, no BP problems, no HR problems, highest Cholesterol ever recorded was in the 120’s. Once I reached a certain weight I was diagnosed as type 2 diabetic. Highest A1c was 9.8, managed with Metformin and Glimepiride.

Occasional right knee problems became constant knee pain, diagnosed last year with osteoarthritis in the joint. While I did get winded fairly easy, didn’t have much issue with anything physical. I can’t remember the last time I had the flu, haven’t had a flu shot in over 30 years. The excess weight I have carried for the past 30 years hasn’t helped, but I had knee problems while in the Marines as well ( Chondromalacia patellae) basically erosion of cartilage under the knee cap from excess running, etc. so knee problems pre-date the obesity.

I do have obstructive sleep apnea, and while it can be obesity related, I have snored to beat the band all the way back to my active duty USMC days so I likely had it then as well.



This past March, I weighed 344 lbs, at 5’7”, “Super-morbidly obese” with a BMI of 54. I am 58 years old and finally decided to do something about it for real. As of today I am 234 lbs, down 110 pounds in five and a half months.

I had my annual physical yesterday:
BP 122/80, Respiration 18, pulse 76, BMI 37 (“just” obese).
Fasting blood sugar of 75, A1c down to 5.9, Dr took me off the Glimepiride and cut my Metformin dose in half.
Total Cholesterol 106, HDL 48, LDL 44, Triglycerides 71.


The numbers from my physical last year at 332 lbs:
BP 118/78, Respiration 18, pulse 84, BMI 51.
Fasting blood sugar of 228, A1c 8.8
Total Cholesterol 100, HDL 35, LDL 39, Triglycerides 129.

Side note on the cholesterol.. I have NEVER done anything to avoid cholesterol, eat few “healthy” foods such as grains, oatmeal, etc. and eat a LOT of red meat, bacon, pepperoni, butter, oil, etc. As far as I am concerned, it ain’t a steak until it is at least 12 oz. and then it is a “small” steak


Doc was shocked and amazed at the weight loss in such a short time frame and said to stick with it. He wants lab work in 3 months and then at 6 months, more labs and a follow with expectation of taking me off diabetic meds all together. Says with the exception of the diabetes (never “cured”, can only be “managed”) I seem to be healthy as a horse.

Had my annual eye exam last week, Dr said absolutely no sign of any diabetic retina damage.



Now, my granddad lived to be 88 smoked a pipe and worked a hard physical life. Sharp as a tack till the day he died of a heart attack in his sleep. He wasn’t “fat”, but he wasn’t skinny either. Would be considered overweight by BMI charts.

My father smoked cigarettes from the age of 16. In my school years he was going through as many as 3 packs a day.Never any cancer concerns, he died April last year at 89. He was diagnosed with emphysema/COPD at the age of 87.

At 5’6”, he was overweight/obese most of his life finally starting to “slim down” in his 70’s. When he died he probably weighed 160ish (BMI 26), still ‘overweight”. Definitely “obese” by clinical terms from 50’s (possibly earlier) and into his 60’s.

He is listed as a “COVID” death, but it was based on symptoms (respiratory problems) and I don’t believe the hospital actually tested him. He was admitted Thursday afternoon, died early Saturday morning.

I believe he could have survived, but he was adamant about DNR and after having been hospitalized in Nov 2019, Dec 2019, and Jan 2020 for pneumonia he had had enough and was ready to go. Refused all treatment other than oxygen and finally agreed to morphine a few hours before he passed.


I learned that I had survived COVID last year at my annual physical, told the doc about many dad and he tested me for antibodies which came back positive. Here is where it gets weird though…

The last time I recall feeling the slightest bit sick was Dec 2019. I was on vacation, dad came home from the hospital on Christmas Day after “pneumonia” which was treated with steroids and Azithromycin. He had spent 5 days in the hospital and I had visited him daily, frequently helping him drink, wipe sputum from coughing, etc.

The last few days of Dec, first few days of Jan, I felt “cruddy”. Not what I would call sick, nothing bad enough to consider seeing a Dr for and had I not been on vacation, I probably would have gone to work. I am thinking that dad may have been one of the first folks to get COVID, possibly when he was in the hospital in Nov 2019. We are in Snohomish County WA. Basically “ground zero” for COVID in the US.



Sooo long story short, and back on topic, I had COVID early on along with multiple co-morbidities (Super-morbid obesity, Diabetic, close to 60 years old) however I was essentially asymptomatic. About the only thing I would say I experienced was lethargy for 4 days or so.Earlier this month I had the semi-quantitative test for COVID antibodies done and the result was 876 U/mL, roughly 21 months after having it. That is a pretty high level (.8 U/mL is considered “positive”)


So for the OP, yes obesity is bad, but I don’t think it is the primary issue. My belief (albeit anecdotal) is the individual and their genetics are much more determinative in what medical issues, complications, and severity they experience.

quote:

1) Is obesity itself, the act of carrying around the extra fat, the direct problem? Or 2) is it the common issues that come along with obesity like high blood pressure, diabetes, breathing difficulty, cholesterol, and so forth?

I suspect you know the answer to your question, but I vote “2,” all the common issues…

You may be wondering, my BMI is 23.1, and I work at it, at worse, my BMI was 26.3 about 11 years ago, and I hated it.

I think BMI certainly has its limitations. While I’m fat, I’m also very thickly built. When I lost a bunch of weight I got down to 299, my lightest as an adult. I still had weight to lose, for sure, but not anywhere near enough to put me in the top step of the “Healthy” range at 180 or so. At that time a body composition analysis stated I was something like 211lbs lean muscle mass and my BF% was roughly 21%. So yes, could still drop more but not another 180 lbs. My frame is one of those that just is heavier.

I think a realistic number would be 250, but will reassess once I get there and see what the more important number, BF%, reads. I know this for certain: I’m much stronger and have much more muscle mass now than then. We’ll see how much muscle sticks around as the fat is breathed out.

How much visceral fat do you have? Do you have a lot of fat in the stomach area?

Visceral fat in the stomach area somehow secretes things that are unhealthy for the body.

I lift weights and walk but still have visceral fat. Its becuase I have a bad diet. I only eat steak and don't like vegetables.

I do think it is possible for some people to be "fat" but still be healthy. But I think those people are the ones that have fat generally distributed over their body and they don't have large amounts of stomach fat.

I had assumed the oxygen demand of a larger body vs. the significant decrease in the ability of the lungs to deliver that oxygen as a result of the virus.

quote:

Originally posted by Cabellocabeza:
How much visceral fat do you have? Do you have a lot of fat in the stomach area?

Visceral fat in the stomach area somehow secretes things that are unhealthy for the body.

I lift weights and walk but still have visceral fat. Its becuase I have a bad diet. I only eat steak and don't like vegetables.

I do think it is possible for some people to be "fat" but still be healthy. But I think those people are the ones that have fat generally distributed over their body and they don't have large amounts of stomach fat.

I don’t remember the reading but it wasn’t in the high range.

Weight and BMI are poor proxies for the real metrics that matter: body composition, blood profusion, O2 saturation, etc.

50% body fat is different than 18% body fat, regardless of weight.

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:

You want the medical reasons fat is bad. I can’t give that. I can say the risks for everything are much higher. That’s pretty statistically trackable. Covid has destroyed obese people. The % of that comorbidity I believe is in the 80 percentile. That’s not good odds.

That’s precisely the crux of my question. For something like COVID, is it the obesity itself that is the problem or is it the other issues that often accompany obesity?

The joint issue is a clear issue, and my knees can attest to that.

Obese people tend to be Vitamin D deficient. There was a posting a few months ago here where a Physician explained the difficulties an obese body has in effectively processing and utilizing Vitamin D. Vitamin D is known to be an effective link to your immune systems ability to combat Corona viruses.

How's thumperfbc doing?

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
Let’s take two different people.

A HUGE disparity of age and I know that is a vitally important factor as well, but let’s assume it wasn’t there. Let’s assume A and B are both in the 35-40 range. They exist for sure.

These people, though both morbidly obese, couldn’t be more different. Right? While both need to lose the weight to increase their health I don’t think it is accurate to say the my risks when contracting COVID are the same as his.

Am I right or am I off base?

I would say off base, but only because age is probably the most important factor of all.

Life style and how you carry weight is certainly impactful on overall healthfulness, but do not discount the effects of age. For two reasons: first, the older person has suffered longer, letting the out-of-balance condition have a greater influence on their physiology; and second, the natural aging process makes it much much harder to correct weight, conditioning, and other metabolic conditions after they have set in.

For those reading this in their 30's and 40's my advice is to never get fat in the first place, it is pretty much a one-way trip. By the time you get to 70 or 80, your heart, liver, kidneys, and entire metabolism has been working trying to keep you healthy too hard for too long, one of the consequences is a degraded/compromised immune system. The younger your are, the easier it is to get fit, and the fitter you get, the easier it is to stay fit. I am painfully aware that I didn't take my own advice, and I know that the younger folks know in their bones that they are immortal, and won't do it either. It's like the advice to start saving for retirement when you are in your 20's. Those old fogeys don't know anything! Youth is, indeed, wasted on the young.

Mike Mutzel has a couple interesting videos about obesity and COVID as well as how current restrictions are creating a rise in obesity.

https://youtu.be/OmWUm4If_BY

In one of the latest Joe Rogan podcasts on Spotify he had Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying. They were promoting their new book "A hunter-gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century" (which is awesome btw). Bret mentioned that he was standing on a busy corner in NYC and couldn't help notice the people and said "these are not wild creatures".

I also see the pathology everyday when I'm in the grocery store. The food choices (and the money spent) on crap in astounding. 60 percent or more of the calories consumed are made up of 4 things, processed grains, refined starches. sugar, vegetable oils. The combination of obesogenic sugars and seed oils is killing us slowly through diabetes, cancer, heart disease, and dementia. Obesity is only and symptom of of the body's attempt to deal with the excess low quality caloric intake.

Ground beef per pound is about half the price of lettuce.

I get it. Carbs are delicious but try to avoid the factory seed oils (corn, canola, soybean, etc).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SigSentry,

look around. How many people do you see that are 50+ lbs overweight walking around at age 70.
Walking not riding the cart at the box store, and not huffing and puffing. Take that 50 lbs off and you'll see a lot more.

quote:

Originally posted by SigSentry:
In one of the latest Joe Rogan podcasts on Spotify he had Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying. They were promoting their new book "A hunter-gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century" (which is awesome btw). Bret mentioned that he was standing on a busy corner in NYC and couldn't help notice the people and said "these are not wild creatures".

I also see the pathology everyday when I'm in the grocery store. The food choices (and the money spent) on crap in astounding. 60 percent or more of the calories consumed are made up of 4 things, processed grains, refined starches. sugar, vegetable oils. The combination of obesogenic sugars and seed oils is killing us slowly through diabetes, cancer, heart disease, and dementia. Obesity is only and symptom of of the body's attempt to deal with the excess low quality caloric intake.

Ground beef per pound is about half the price of lettuce.

I get it. Carbs are delicious but try to avoid the factory seed oils (corn, canola, soybean, etc).
[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rQmqVVmMB3k" title="YouTube video player" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

!!!!!!
SigSentry hit the nail on the head, processed foods, sugars, and refined oils are the issue causing type2 diabetes, insulin resistance which are the causes of obesity.

I’ve lost 60lbs since March 1st with diet changes eliminating the above crap and feel great.
Check out Dr Ken Berry and Dr Eric Berg on YouTube. They explain the mechanics of how these poison “foods” react in your body as the catalyst to many health issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Timdogg6:
Watching this. IM 6'0 and 375. But I have a big chest, so I "carry it well". But yes, anyone looking would say, that there is a BIG boy. I don't exercise but BP is ok, no diabetes and cholesterol is a bit high but not whacko, Dr. recommends against statins as I am 45.
Who knows. One of my best friends, 5'5" 140 lbs wet, peloton junkie, keto eating pansie boy just got nailed for a quad bypass at 55. On paper I should be dead compared to him.

So if Covid has taught us anything....

45, 6'0 and 375...

Is not a long term plan.


I am a big guy myself and I committed to getting to 220# (6'2")

That is over 40 lbs.


Start small...

Walk a mile after dinner.

Keep a log of what you are eating (and drinking)

Don't drink your calories!

Get good sleep


You will lose a bunch of weight immediately, but then...your body will start to fight you.

Fight back...work harder.

Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig M11:


Keep a log of what you are eating (and drinking)...

I’ve been using the “Lose It” app for tracking calories and highly recommend it. Simple interface, extensive library and ability to creat own items, just scan a UPC code, or take a picture of the nutritional info label.

I am down from 344 to 230 in the past five and a half months. 40 pounds to go to my goal of 190.

Eat less, exercise more. I try to keep my net carbs below 100/day. Doc just told me to quit taking glimeperide and cut my metformin down in half. Another three to six months and I should be completely off the diabetes meds.


Lots of good info in this thread, but it seems to have withered lately…


https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...935/m/2060072444/p/1