It's been a while since this article was trotted out for our general information, but even after all this time, it's still a good and often sobering read from a former police officer turned ME staffer in a [very[ busy city morgue.


http://www.gunthorp.com/Termin...0in%20a%20morgue.htm

I’d have to agree with the writers view, when given the choice in a self defense shooting, I prefer the shotgun, then a rifle then a handgun.

There’s a video that explained this with stats, but I can’t find it right now.

Found it: https://youtu.be/nycYxb-zNwc

When’s the original writing from? Looks like it’s reposted in 2006, so at least 16 y/o. Have 9mm ballistics changed enough since then to close the gap? Until someone figures out how to get 10-12 rounds of 40 or 45 into the same sized pkg as my P365, his musings aren’t going to change what’s on my hip every day in real life. OTOH, when concealability doesn’t matter at all, reaching for my GP100 in 357 mag sure gives me the warm and fuzzies (and a backache)!!

Obviously, a street sweeper or carbine is first choice, but I look REALLY funny with those tucked into my trousers!

Thanks for that! But, Ooo-eee!, that’s going to annoy a lot of people. Cue the rationalizations, or better yet, just forget it was ever written.

(Just one comment, though: Yes, bullet designs have changed over the years. What hasn’t changed to any significant degree, if at all, are ballistics. Limits on chamber pressures and powder/gas volume limit velocities and velocity limits limit kinetic energy and momentum. “Ye canna change the laws of physics, Captain.”)

Thanks for posting that, tac!

DM2's observations on the autopsy table coincide with what I would expect, based upon the physics. That's why, though I often carry a 9mm, and even a .380, when necessary, my preferred semi-auto calibers are .45 ACP, .40 S&W, and 10mm, in that order. Why that order? Because the first two are more controllable than the 10mm in a more concealable handgun, and I shoot the .45 ACP better than the .40 S&W.

In fact: I've been meaning to put my .45 ACP Colt Defender back in rotation. I think I'll do that today.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Thanks for that! But, Ooo-eee!, that’s going to annoy a lot of people. Cue the rationalizations, ...

My favorite is "shot placement rules," ignoring the "all else being equal" and "shot placement becomes increasingly difficult under increasing stress" points.

I didnt read the entire article but the two things the author said that stood out to me:

1) As for handguns, the name of the game is not only shot placement but how a properly-placed bullet acts once it gets there. I've seen folks killed by a bb to the eye and others survive after being hit by several well-placed rounds with a 9mm.


2) The long and short of it is that you just don't know how ANY bullet will react to tissue and bone until you open them up and take a look. I've seen hardball fragment and hollow points act just like hardball. That said, shoot what you're comfortable with and place your shots well whatever caliber you use.

It comes down to you just dont know what will happen. Shoot until you stop the threat.

DeadMeat's citation of Stephen A. Camp's late, lamented hipowersandhandguns pages brought back memories of Stephen's sound advice early in my days of shooting handguns.
I still have some laminated pages on the BHP from Stephen.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
(Just one comment, though: Yes, bullet designs have changed over the years. What hasn’t changed to any significant degree, if at all, are ballistics. Limits on chamber pressures and powder/gas volume limit velocities and velocity limits limit kinetic energy and momentum. “Ye canna change the laws of physics, Captain.”)

Yup. Nine or so grains of powder is still just nine or so grains of powder.

My take-away:

12G shotgun for home, 357 Magnum revolver for sidearm.

My LGS is a big proponent of 9 mm 147 gr subsonic as a very effective SD round. Just makes me continue to like my 45 ACP 230 standard velocity HP round as long as I can still shoot it well.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
My take-away:

... 357 Magnum revolver for sidearm.

Note that his comments regarding the .357 Mag were all essentially apocryphal. And most of what field data is available relates to its use in 4 in. bbl. service revolvers. Lastly: You're pretty much limited to revolvers. Thus low round-count and slow(er) reloads.

Besides: Have you ever shot full-load .357 Magnum from a 4 in. bbl. service revolver? I have. I own one. (Ruger Security Six.) It's a handful.

The closest thing to .357 Mag performance in an auto-loader is the 10mm. I suppose full-load 10mm might be tolerable in a 4 in. bbl., all-steel pistol, but such a pistol might not be particularly comfortable to carry concealed for any length of time. (Yeah, yeah: "I carry a steel-framed Government 1911 all day, concealed, no problem." You're the exception, rather than the rule, dude. Most people find that kind of thing uncomfortable to carry concealed.)

My belief is the .40 S&W is the best compromise between bullet mass, muzzle velocity, and round count of those rounds available in an auto-loader I feel suitable for concealed carry. But there's not much available in that kind of thing anymore.

So now down to 9mm and .45 ACP. I own, and carry, both. Were I forced to choose one: Going by his observations and my beliefs, .45 ACP would get the nod.

For OWB, service, carry: Were I allowed to choose my own, I'd choose 10mm in a steel-framed 2011 in a Commander form factor. (Cosaint Arms will build you one if you wish. Rather spendy, though.)

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:


Besides: Have you ever shot full-load .357 Magnum from a 4 in. bbl. service revolver?

Yes.

Full power .357 loads out of a 4" service revolver aren't overly abusive. A 14oz. S&W M&P 340 is a whole 'nother story.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
Stephen A. Camp's late, lamented hipowersandhandguns pages brought back memories of Stephen's sound advice early in my days of shooting handguns.

I am also in that camp ... and kept a copy of the pages ...

</chris>