I really like my doctor. No way would I bail if he were to get arrested for prostitution.

AFAIC, soliciting a prostitute is as much of a crime as possessing marijuana for personal consumption- it just doesn't matter and the government needs to keep their nose out of people's business.

quote:

Originally posted by Bassamatic:
I really like my doctor. No way would I bail if he were to get arrested for prostitution.

We didn't bail, he left the medical group in which he practiced, and no clue where he went. I have no idea whether it was his decision, or his business partner's. Given the tone of the email from the administration of the practice, it does not sound as if it was his idea.

Once again a George Carlin quote, "Selling is legal and fucking is legal so why isn't selling fucking legal?"

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
It is legal In Germany and Belgium. The Frankfurt red light district is right next to the main train station and is actually in tourist guides. Amsterdam is another example. As I am prohibited from partaking due to UCMJ, I cannot comment on licensing and inspections. I have heard about/seen articles indicating that there are still issues with human trafficking, but I've also seen statistics saying that the actual trafficking is minor, down to the double digits.

Mandatory health checks were initially abolished in 2001, and the following year the legal stance that prostitution was "against the good customs" (and the implicit business agreements thus void) was dropped following a court ruling; prostitutes can since sue for their money if necessary (though obviously it's customary to pay up front). Proceeds from prostitution have always been taxed regardless of the government's moral view anyway, even if of course it's hard to audit somebody who does it in private. I've had a sorta-relationship with high-class escort, and she was an honest taxpayer (of course she was making approximately three times what I got paid per month, too), but I would guess the vast majority goes under the radar.

As of this summer, the law has been tightened again, mostly out of the new moralism funnily coming from the left rather than the right under the guise of "protecting women"; there was a feminist campaign to outlaw not offering, but buying sexual services on the Scandinavian model, recently also introduced in France. The chief argument was countering human trafficking, pointing out that Germany has become "Europe's brothel" due to its liberal laws. Of course there's trafficking going on, mostly from Eastern Europe; and the majority of women in the field are probably in it out of economic need rather than enjoying the job even if not forced, though the problem is not necessarily the stereotypical sleazy pimp type preying on innocent girls under the pretense of legit work or romantic feelings. Having my then-girlfriend tell me of colleagues who cried over not making enough that week to satisfy their parents who sent them from Romania or similar sorta gave me pause.

Obviously interest groups of prostitutes and red light business argued against reform, and in the end there was a half-baken compromise. Knowingly accepting the services of involuntary prostitutes was made an offense (which is going to be hard to prove); registration and annual health counsel was brought back, with a grandfathering period until year's end (which most of the private girls are not going to care about), minimum age raised from 18 to 21, and use of condoms for all types of intercourse including oral was made obligatory (which is unenforcable and already being roundly ignored by anybody who didn't do it before). There were also some sensible restrictions like stricter regulation of brothels - which were previously quipped to need less red tape to cut for operation than a hot dog stand - and limiting employers' authority to have the girls do anything, including flatrate sex and gangbang parties. Yet a lot of the professionals were pissed, some quit (which probably was the ultimate aim of the law), and their interest groups have filed a complaint with the Constitutional Court.

By the nature of the business, there are no definite statistics about prostitution in Germany; estimates range from 150,000 to 700,000 sex workers, including part-time (I once saw a claim that about five percent of all Berlin university students are earning a little something on the side this way), of which 90 percent female, seven male, and three trans. Since EU borders were opened the proportion of foreigners has risen drastically to anywhere between half and three quarters of all, mostly from Eastern Europe. One study suggested Bulgarians and Romanians were the biggest groups at 16 and 12 percent respectively, and from looking through online ads, that feels about right. I also see a lot of Polish, Czech, Hungarian, Baltic, and Russian girls who the Germans tend to complain have spoilt the prices; also some Turkish, Thai and African ones.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Laws prohibiting prostitution are ridiculous and always have been. It's not called the world's oldest profession for nothing.

Lives have been ruined needlessly simply because the government thinks their place is between two copulating people if money is involved.

You don't have to sell it on the street to be a whore. Prostitution comes in many forms.

Everyone needs to mind their own business. I'm familiar with all the arguments against legalized prostitution. I'm not convinced. These things are going to happen- every minute of every day- whether or not they are legal acts.
The hypocrisy of those who made these laws is not surprising.

Truly, if porn is legal, sex for cash, why isn't prostitution? If I was in the trade, I would have a room with a movie camera and claim 1st Amendment in case of any arrest. That's what porn did and it seems to work.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Fowler:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Laws prohibiting prostitution are ridiculous and always have been. It's not called the world's oldest profession for nothing.

Lives have been ruined needlessly simply because the government thinks their place is between two copulating people if money is involved.

You don't have to sell it on the street to be a whore. Prostitution comes in many forms.

Everyone needs to mind their own business. I'm familiar with all the arguments against legalized prostitution. I'm not convinced. These things are going to happen- every minute of every day- whether or not they are legal acts.
The hypocrisy of those who made these laws is not surprising.

I agree with you fully, campaigns against victimless crime have never worked and cost us as a country than we can afford.

Many people see it this way assuming the parties are always consenting but do some research on the underage girls being trafficked in the sex slave trade then tell me it’s a victimless crime. There are too many forced into prostitution to think it is victimless.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Fowler:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Laws prohibiting prostitution are ridiculous and always have been. It's not called the world's oldest profession for nothing.

Lives have been ruined needlessly simply because the government thinks their place is between two copulating people if money is involved.

You don't have to sell it on the street to be a whore. Prostitution comes in many forms.

Everyone needs to mind their own business. I'm familiar with all the arguments against legalized prostitution. I'm not convinced. These things are going to happen- every minute of every day- whether or not they are legal acts.
The hypocrisy of those who made these laws is not surprising.

I agree with you fully, campaigns against victimless crime have never worked and cost us as a country than we can afford.

Many people see it this way assuming the parties are always consenting but do some research on the underage girls being trafficked in the sex slave trade then tell me it’s a victimless crime. There are too many forced into prostitution to think it is victimless.

Accepting one (paid-for-sex between consenting adults) doesn't mean you have to accept the other (the sex-slave trade). I would be perfectly fine with putting the some measure of the resources focused on prostitution in general instead strictly into addressing underage/the slave-sex trade.

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:Accepting one (paid-for-sex between consenting adults) doesn't mean you have to accept the other (the sex-slave trade).

Exactly. No different than consuming alcohol vs DWI

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by rusbro:Accepting one (paid-for-sex between consenting adults) doesn't mean you have to accept the other (the sex-slave trade).

Exactly. No different than consuming alcohol vs DWI

I’m editing my post now that I thought about your comment. Being forced into sexual slavery is nothing like drinking vs DWI. I understand the idea that it could be a exclusive of slavery but it’s not. Honestly do some research and read about the sex slavery, it’s eye opening

This is where universal healthcare screws everything up.

I don't care if you bang a hooker, have at it. But when you catch some shit and need treatment (AIDS being the most expensive), I don't want universal healthcare to pay for that.

If you make dumb choices, you should pay for them out of your pocket, not mine. So long as you force me to pay, I'll support laws that discourage you from making said dumb decisions. Less intrusion on all fronts would be great IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
This is where universal healthcare screws everything up.

I don't care if you bang a hooker, have at it. But when you catch some shit and need treatment (AIDS being the most expensive), I don't want universal healthcare to pay for that.

If you make dumb choices, you should pay for them out of your pocket, not mine. So long as you force me to pay, I'll support laws that discourage you from making said dumb decisions. Less intrusion on all fronts would be great IMO.

I'm proposing a new version of O-Care. I say we call it "O-Care." O-Care: If you like your hooker, you can keep your hooker."

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
This is where universal healthcare screws everything up.

I don't care if you bang a hooker, have at it. But when you catch some shit and need treatment (AIDS being the most expensive), I don't want universal healthcare to pay for that.

If you make dumb choices, you should pay for them out of your pocket, not mine. So long as you force me to pay, I'll support laws that discourage you from making said dumb decisions. Less intrusion on all fronts would be great IMO.

The damage caused by unregulated sugar consumption and unwanted kids by parents who can't afford them outweighs such concerns by several orders of magnitude, at least.

How much time and energy do you spend trying to regulate those issues? Hmmm? Tell us.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
I could get the highest grade hookers, in triplicate, and several lines of the finest un-cut coke for what my ex-wife gets from me on the first of every month.

I did it backwards.

Damn chongo! Some of you make me, never, ever, want to get married. I just couldn’t afford the financial implications if it went South.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
This is where universal healthcare screws everything up.

I don't care if you bang a hooker, have at it. But when you catch some shit and need treatment (AIDS being the most expensive), I don't want universal healthcare to pay for that.

If you make dumb choices, you should pay for them out of your pocket, not mine. So long as you force me to pay, I'll support laws that discourage you from making said dumb decisions. Less intrusion on all fronts would be great IMO.

Following that logic, if you are involved in an accident that was your fault, you must pay out of your own pocket instead of your insurance paying the bill. If you have insurance, it is there to pay for accidents your fault or not.

Prostitution is a stupid law. Along with marijuana being legal. How much time is spent enforcing these laws, court cost, jail and probation cost?

Let's put our LEO to work stopping the real crimes. Sure no one wants to see a working girl walking down a street near their home. Make it legal and regulate it like everything else and most of that will go away.

FWIW I don't and wouldn't participate in either if they were legal. Just seems like a lot of wasted time, man hours and money to deal with this.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
This is where universal healthcare screws everything up.

I don't care if you bang a hooker, have at it. But when you catch some shit and need treatment (AIDS being the most expensive), I don't want universal healthcare to pay for that.

If you make dumb choices, you should pay for them out of your pocket, not mine. So long as you force me to pay, I'll support laws that discourage you from making said dumb decisions. Less intrusion on all fronts would be great IMO.

The damage caused by unregulated sugar consumption and unwanted kids by parents who can't afford them outweighs such concerns by several orders of magnitude, at least.

How much time and energy do you spend trying to regulate those issues? Hmmm? Tell us.

Agreed. I actually don't consume refined sugar. I'd be fine regulating it. If you don't want me having an opinion of your actions, you can't ask me to pay for them.

Again, this is why universal healthcare is the poison pill that invites regulation into your entire life.

My answer of preference isn't to regulate sugar. My answer of preference is to not pay for the healthcare of others and allow them to eat whatever the heck they want. If you have universal healthcare...no sugar for you!

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Fowler:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
This is where universal healthcare screws everything up.

I don't care if you bang a hooker, have at it. But when you catch some shit and need treatment (AIDS being the most expensive), I don't want universal healthcare to pay for that.

If you make dumb choices, you should pay for them out of your pocket, not mine. So long as you force me to pay, I'll support laws that discourage you from making said dumb decisions. Less intrusion on all fronts would be great IMO.

Following that logic, if you are involved in an accident that was your fault, you must pay out of your own pocket instead of your insurance paying the bill. If you have insurance, it is there to pay for accidents your fault or not.

I pay for my insurance to cover me; that's my whole point. Your analogy doesn't work.

If you pay for your own healthcare, you do whatever the heck you want. If I'm paying for your healthcare, I'm going to take an interest in what you do to your body.

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
Unless it has changed, prostitution is legal in several European countries. Including Germany where the hookers are licensed and required to get physical exams on a regular basis.

And, IIRC, the same rules apply in other countries over there.

They used to have areas in Frankfurt where the hookers were to ply their business.

It is going to happen, get used to it. At least if it is overseen by the health authorities the spread of VD of all kinds will be reduced or eliminated.

I believe it’s legal in Canada also.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
I could get the highest grade hookers, in triplicate, and several lines of the finest un-cut coke for what my ex-wife gets from me on the first of every month.

I did it backwards.

Damn chongo! Some of you make me, never, ever, want to get married. I just couldn’t afford the financial implications if it went South.

It's that thinking that will get you in trouble in the first place.
Ya gotta think out of the box my man.
Nobody on here ever said you have to marry a poor woman!

Re-read all of this, and just knock off the "S".... Turn She onto He!
Now go out there and be a Man-ho!