quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
AA, are being pricks to me.

I think the airlines use the same motto as H&K...Because you suck. And we hate you.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Well I am no economist and I do agree that CEO’s use stock as an easy cheap way to bump compensation. I love CEO’s who take salary cuts knowing full well that salary is the smallest fraction of their compensation. It is doubly disingenuous because if that “cut” allows them to lever their employees to take pay cuts the BOD will more than make ups their salary cut in their yearly bonus. BS.

Back to the point. My very basic understanding is no large corporation keeps large, extremely large, in this scenario of cash on hand due to hostile takeovers. Literally a company can buy another company and largely fund it using the taken over companies funds. Very predatory and very unethical. But legal. Corporations tend to not make themselves appealing to this scenario.

Not a lawyer so feel free to correct if I am wrong.

What is Apple’s cash on hand? How ‘bout Cisco’s? (I just ask the question, I don’t know and am too lazy to lookup the answer, but I think I remember reading multiple times that Apple has a metric sh*t ton of cash on hand.

Forget the $50b to airlines, what about the other $800b? sending out checks in two weeks? To who, for what?

quote:

They don't provide any filtration of the cabin air to reduce viral transmission.

Good god man what kinda nonsense are you talking? Watch a few too many episodes of Seinfeld? Cabin air comes from bleed air after the compression stage in the engine. It's bout 250 degrees celsius and 40 psi before it goes through a heat exchanger and enters the cabin. As clean as the air in a surgery suite, if not cleaner.

quote:

Originally posted by opticsguy:
That money will be used to buy back their own stock, like the bailouts in 2008.

Obamas "stimulus" package primarily went to pay off unions. Was a total scam.

One thing I haven’t heard mentioned, and I may be off base, but this could be a godsend for Boeing. I’m sure airlines have put all acquisitions on hold for now. Just a few months ago I was hearing about how all these 737Max orders were going to be cancelled and sent to Airbus.

Perhaps Boeing can use this pause in demand to get the Max back in the air, and get those parked planes sold during the rebound in demand. This whole virus scare may help preserve Boeing’s market share. Just a thought.

Does bailing them out mean they'll pay it back or is this just "free money" courtesy the American Net Taxpayer.

If all other bailouts are of any guide, you can kiss the money goodbye

^^^^ winner winner.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

{Snip}

Yet it's the airline's fault. Quite a stretch, there.

Well, patient number 1 traveled by airliner to China, visited her sick relative and then took another airliner back to the US. Now we are facing a very serious health crisis. And the airlines brought it here.

I don't think we should bail out the airlines so they can fly sick people around the world spreading disease. If that means I can't handle the truth, so be it. It is just simple economics. By lowering the cost of air travel through bailouts, more sick people will be flying around spreading disease.

You know, when I take my horses across state lines, or within the state to a horse show or auction or just to go for a drive, they have to have a current Coggins test and a vet inspection within 30 days. If I want to import a horse from a foreign country, they have to spend time in a government USDA APHIS quarantine facility. Maybe we need a similar system for air travel. I do remember that there were quarantine facilities at New York harbor for arriving immigrants to prevent the spread of pandemic diseases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swinburne_Island
It is amazing that we are so concerned with livestock health, but not human health.

If I were an airline concerned with the health of my passengers, I would put a UV light fixture or two on the aisleway for boarding passengers. I am not aware that this is currently down. The use of UV lights is very common in food preparation facilities.


For those of you who say that modern economies need a vibrant air travel industry, this current situation is what you get. I am glad you all like to travel cheaply for business and pleasure, but you can see now that there is a significant external cost to those of us who just want to stay at home and not catch a Chinese virus.

I have been a little grumpy these days, watching a third of my retirement savings melt away before my eyes. All so patient 1 could visit her sick relatives in China.

So if an infected person traveled via airline, and that makes airlines culpable...

...ergo, when someone shoots up a school with X brand firearm, that makes X brand responsible culpable.

I can't wait til Joltin' Joe Biden does the reverse logic and wants to let me sue the airlines.

Also, quarantines are not the airlines' job. It's the government's job. Something tells me that it would not be legal for a private entity to detain hundreds of individuals for days on end every time they fly....

quote:

Originally posted by Hay2bale:
If I were an airline...

So start up your own airline and DO IT!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
So if an infected person traveled via airline, and that makes airlines culpable...

...ergo, when someone shoots up a school with X brand firearm, that makes X brand responsible culpable.

I can't wait til Joltin' Joe Biden does the reverse logic and wants to let me sue the airlines.

Also, quarantines are not the airlines' job. It's the government's job. Something tells me that it would not be legal for a private entity to detain hundreds of individuals for days on end every time they fly....

So you think that the taxpayers should subsidize an industry that transmits fatal diseases? That's sick, man.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Hay2bale:
If I were an airline...

So start up your own airline and DO IT!!!!!!

I don't like airlines, there are too many of them already.

What I will do is sell you a nice row boat so you can row to China and visit your sick relatives.

What the world needs now is more row boats, I think.

quote:

Originally posted by Hay2bale:

Make sure to stop driving your car and ride your white horse everywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Hay2bale:
I have been a little grumpy these days, watching a third of my retirement savings melt away before my eyes. All so patient 1 could visit her sick relatives in China.

It's truly mindbending that you're still digging yourself deeper by defending your wild ideas, but let's take a drive.

You ever go visit a sick relative? How's that glass house you live in? Got stones? Throw them.

The one without sin that casts the first one. Is that you?

quote:

Originally posted by Hay2bale:

Well, patient number 1 traveled by airliner to China, visited her sick relative and then took another airliner back to the US. Now we are facing a very serious health crisis. And the airlines brought it here.

No, the airlines did not.

How many people got sick on that flight? None. Patient 2 was the husband of patient one, and infection didn't occur until well after the second flight arrived back in the US on January 13. It occurred as a result of direct intimate personal contact, not as a result of an airline flight.

The woman did not know whe was infected. She showed no symptms. The airline certainly did not know she was infected. She showed no symptoms. No medical professional would have, or could have known that she was infected. She showed no symptoms.

Travelled to China, much? I do, all the time. Chinese airports have had thermal scanners and health professionals at entry points for over a decade now, thanks to SARS (the previous SARS). Everyone gets checked for elevated temperature on an IR scanner, with a doctor and or nurse standing by, and will be pulled if they display any outward signs or show an elevated temperature. This patient didn't.

Have you ever travelled on an airliner? Ever been sick? Ever travelled to a foreign country? Ever visited a relative? None of this applies to you? Good for you. It applies to a very large subset of the population, nearly all of whom travel by air for one reason or another. The airline won't ask your reason for travel, though various customs will limit their question to "business," or "other." It's not the airlines job to know why you travelled, or to care. Their job it to get you from A to B safely. They did. Mission accomplished.

The woman visited sick relatives. She felt fine. She did not advise anyone that she felt unwell. She did not feel unwell. She did not display symptoms until days later. She did not infect her husband until days later. She did not infect people on the airplane.

First you complained about filtration, but learned that you didn't know what you were talking about. It was the airlines fault because they didn't grow up and become like a grocery store, your coveted "food lion." You were taught that your idea of ultra violet light at the entrance is ridiculous and would accomplish nothing, and would have made no difference. We'll talk about that some more, because you won't let that notion go either.

quote:

Originally posted by Hay2bale:

I don't think we should bail out the airlines so they can fly sick people around the world spreading disease. If that means I can't handle the truth, so be it. It is just simple economics. By lowering the cost of air travel through bailouts, more sick people will be flying around spreading disease.

Perhaps you can handle the truth, but when presented it, you don't absorb it.

Setting aside the absurd logic that ticket price is connected to disease, or the economic fallacy of lowering ticket price to increase infectious rate as you've suggested, airlines fly a lot of people. People fly for a lot of reasons. I've been actively flying people for nearly four decades. I've never met one that intentionally flew to infect others, nor have I ever encountered an airline, charter department, corporate flight department, fractional operation that did, either.

You say these things as if they're true, but of course, are not. They border on conspiracy.

quote:

Originally posted by Hay2bale:
You know, when I take my horses across state lines, or within the state to a horse show or auction or just to go for a drive, they have to have a current Coggins test and a vet inspection within 30 days. If I want to import a horse from a foreign country, they have to spend time in a government USDA APHIS quarantine facility. Maybe we need a similar system for air travel. I do remember that there were quarantine facilities at New York harbor for arriving immigrants to prevent the spread of pandemic diseases.

Do you understand that an airplane, operated by an airline, traveling internationally, conforming to the requirements of each countries civil aviation authority and the international civil aviaiton organization, is not governed by food lion, or operated like your truck and horse trailer? The airliner is not operated like a submarine, a space asteroid, or a duck. It's operated like an airplane. Best to confine your comparisons to airplanes.

Your horse does not fly internationally, does it? No? If you were to fly internationally, you'd require a yellow fever shot in many countries. Other than that, there are no other vaccines required in most locations. You'd have to carry proof of vaccination. There are numerous other vaccines that you should have, if you travel, but most don't, and most locations, including the US and 99.9% of the rest of the planet, do not require them. Cholera to Japanese Encephalitis, you should have been vaccinated. But you don't need to be, and there's no legal requirement. You've been vaccinated for those things?

My last round of vaccinations cost nearly four thousand out of pocket, because insurance doesn't cover it. You'd know if you've had all the vaccines, or not. But you haven't had them, have you?

Are you suggesting that your horse be allowed to travel by air, now, or that we should all get the same vaccination as your horse? Neither suggestion? Because both are ridiculous? About as ridiculous as suggesting that the airline is responsible for everyone being vaccinated, when no country requires it.

Do you think that every patient should get a full medical workup before being allowed to fly, and that it should be the responsibility of the airline? I have to get a full flight physical every six months, EKG and everything, but I'm driving. If you get aboard, you don't. Can you imagine every patient undergoing a full physical every time they want to fly? Good god.

Previously, you wanted the airlines to model themselves after your food haunt, "food lion." Now you want to model air travel after your horse trailer. What's next?

quote:

Originally posted by Hay2bale:

If I were an airline concerned with the health of my passengers, I would put a UV light fixture or two on the aisleway for boarding passengers. I am not aware that this is currently down. The use of UV lights is very common in food preparation facilities.

As we previously discussed, this has no effect and would have no effect on travelers. None. It's also not as widespread as you seem to think and has no effect on food preparation, and couldn't have an effect on food, beyond what's on the surface, if at all. Ever seen ultraviolet screening at the emergency room? Your doctor's office? Your favorite burger joint.

Some countries require that airlines disinfect the cabin prior to landing, and a flight attendant (or loadmaster, as the case may be) will walk through with spray cans, dispensing an aerosol, per international regulations. These are to kill certain insects.

UV light will not remove or kill or modify microbes on a person, or in a persons clothing, baggage, hands, face, hair, or anywhere else. Certainly not in a patient's lungs. Unless you plan to wrap up every paassenger in plastic and seal them in, every passenger will continue to shed skin cells, breathe, and have misses and accidents in the lavatory, as well as touch their seat, doorway, lav handles, TV screen, seat rests, drinks and catering, and probably seatmate. Nobody's getting wrapped in plastic. UV light won't help. It won't impact anything.

Now, you're suggesting that the UV lights should be in the entry area prior to boarding the airplane. You attempt to say that this is the airlines responsibility. As you've already been told (but clearly didn't listen), the airlines have NO responsibility or ownership of this area. The airline ownership begins when you step across the threshold of the airplane and inside the door, because that's where the airplane begins, you see. Everything prior to that belongs to the airport. Not the airlines.

The airports didn't transport Patient-1. Are they responsible for the infection of the US, too? What about the taxi that carried her to and from the hotel? What about the hospitals where she visited? what about the resteraunts where she ate, or hotels where she slept? WHAT ABOUT HER?

Maybe patient-1 is responsible, as all air travelers are (remember the concept of personal responsibility? It still applies, despite food lion and your horse trailer). Maybe the virus itself is responsible, as it didn't manifest until well after her trip was concluded, and nobody, least of all the airline, had any reason to suspect she was infected. She wasn't contagious, clearly, and she didn't infect others on the flight (making discussions about blue light, filtration, horse trailes, and the vaunted food lion, irrelevant). Yet it's the airlines fault. The fallacies just keep stacking up. Add multiple falsehoods together, it doesn't make a truth.

Ultra violet light would not have changed the outcome. Filtration would not have changed the outcome. You have no way of knowing if this woman had vaccinations, or which ones, but no amount of vaccine would have changed the outcome.

Surely you're not suggesting that all patients be quarrantined on arrival?

Your horse shits on the floor. Most passengers do not. Your horse is irrelevant.

Your effort to pin the tail on the donkey appears to be at all costs: no matter the truth, no matter the facts, the the blame game goes on. I suspect that no amount of truth or fact will matter to you at all, but it's hard to imagine why you might keep beating a dead horse with the same false ideas, and then defend them.

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
...ergo, when someone shoots up a school with X brand firearm, that makes X brand responsible culpable.

Close. When anybody shoots up anything, that makes all firearms culpable. We must demand the government ban them all for the chirrum.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
It's truly mindbending that you're still digging yourself deeper by defending your wild ideas, but let's take a drive.

I like it!!!

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Your Horse is irrelevant.

Your effort to pin the tail on the donkey appears to be at all costs: no matter the truth, no matter the facts, the the blame game goes on. I suspect that no amount of truth or fact will matter to you at all, but it's hard to imagine why you might keep beating a dead horse with the same false ideas, and then defend them.

A bit defensive this morning, are you?

I know that if there were no airlines, the Chinese Death Virus would not be here in the US.

And my horse matters to me. Since she is not dead yet.

What did donkeys ever do to you?

quote:

Originally posted by Hay2bale:
I have been a little grumpy these days, watching a third of my retirement savings melt away before my eyes. All so patient 1 could visit her sick relatives in China.

Hello, we have arrived at the crux of the issue. Many (Most?) of us are at least concerned if not scared and at least a little unhappy if not outright angry about what is going on. Things don’t look great, whether you look at some health projections or most economic projections. Many are frightened, upset, and worried about how it affecting them or how it is going to affect them. I don’t know if it is human nature to rush to blame something or someone else when things go wrong, but the reaction is so damned common it may well be. This IS NOT A HELPFUL REACTION. Getting angry and trying to pin the blame on someone or something else is a useless waste, a bunch of negative energy for nothing. Go take a walk, read a book, or work on constructive strategies to make your lot in life better. You will be happier and you’ll actually be doing something useful.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Your effort to pin the tail on the donkey appears to be at all costs: no matter the truth, no matter the facts, the the blame game goes on. I suspect that no amount of truth or fact will matter to you at all, but it's hard to imagine why you might keep beating a dead horse with the same false ideas, and then defend them.

Right on target at the end of a Tour de Force truth bomb. The post this was snipped from was very long, very direct, and not a word out of place (well other than the two “the”s in one spot). BRAVO!

Hay2Bale, please go take a walk, fertilize your hay, or do something productive. You’ll be a lot happier and the negativity won’t be missed.