My house was built a little over 3 years ago. The box is populated with plenty of AFCI breakers, both normal and dual function (AFCI+GFCI). The dual function 20Amp breaker with all of my garage outlets keeps tripping randomly, maybe once or twice a week.

I have made no changes to what is plugged into the circuit over the past couple of years. I made a precursory glance at all of outlets in the garage, and nothing seemed out of the ordinary. This one has a small fridge/freezer, a floor freezer (not a big one), tankless GAS water heater, and the water softener constantly plugged into it.

It doesn't trip when I'm using other things like tools (except for one time I pushed the chop saw too far ); we usually find out it tripped when coming home from work and the garage doors won't open.

I've heard these breakers can be faulty, as with any other, but that these tend be a bit more sensitive. Should I just replace the breaker ($60-$70), or more thoroughly look at each outlet to see if there are any other issues?

I’ll let the hive’s more experienced electricians chime in but when we were building homes it was not uncommon to have some of these fail and have to be replaced…

My experience with them was they suck. lol Lots of false trips and die early.


And because of the work I was doing, more importantly where and when, my only recourse at 2AM with zero parts was to take one of the unused non AFCI breakers and put it in it's places. I'm sure they're still that way many years later.

I had one die, flesheatingvirus. Same symptoms you're reporting.

I removed the loads, one-by-one. I eventually removed all the loads and it still tripped.

I replaced it and the problem went away.

AFCI breakers have a small circuit board. They are subject to transient voltages just like any other electronic appliance. If you don’t have one already, a whole-house SPD would go a long way towards extending the life of your AFCI breakers. They aren’t much more expensive than a single AFCI breaker.

On a side note, if it is a combination AFCI/GFCI breaker, have you gotten the breaker to tell you if it was a GFCI or an AFCI trip? Even breakers without LEDs, like square D, will report on the type of trip.

One or more of those motors on that circuit could be inducing enough " noise " on the line to look like an arcing fault . Just a guess .

I don’t see any way to tell which type of fault caused it to trip. Some versions of these have either LEDs or little colored flags, but this one seems to have neither.

It’s the one labeled “garage”:



UPDATE: I just had to reset it again; it won’t fully reset. It is still on the tripped position. HOWEVER, it is still powering the circuit whether in the off or tripped position. I’m guessing this thing is toast. I’ll have to swing by Home Depot after work tomorrow.

They aren't known to last too long. I typically replace them with regular breakers when they die if the circuit and related components are in good shape.

There were ACFI breakers in my house when I moved in. They are a PITA. Plug in a surge protector, pop goes the breaker. I fucking hate them enough I replaced all of them in my house with standard breakers.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
I don’t see any way to tell which type of fault caused it to trip. Some versions of these have either LEDs or little colored flags, but this one seems to have neither.

On a square D breaker (both QO and HOM), you tell by timing the trip. It stores the cause of a trip for 30 days. First, with the breaker in the OFF position, press AND HOLD the test button. With your other hand, reset the breaker. If it immediately trips, then it was a GFCI fault. If it takes two seconds to trip, the last trip was an AFCI fault. If it takes 5 seconds to trip, then it was a thermal/short trip. Repeat the procedure six times to clear the breaker’s memory.

Here is the instruction sheet from SE. The fault indication instructions are down in the “Troubleshooting” section.

https://www.se.com/us/en/download/document/HRB73152/

^^ Holy shit. Do I have to sing a song, do a dance, or make any hand gestures, too?

Still, good info. I had no idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Beancooker:
There were ACFI breakers in my house when I moved in. They are a PITA. Plug in a surge protector, pop goes the breaker. I fucking hate them enough I replaced all of them in my house with standard breakers.

What he said! Standard breakers, and GFIs by the sinks and tubs.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
^^ Holy shit. Do I have to sing a song, do a dance, or make any hand gestures, too?

This is a very fitting reaction to this over-engineered bullshit.

So a follow up question: Does it violate code to replace this breaker with a normal one? I figured I'd at least need to replace one of the outlets with a GFI, since this breaker provides that function for the entire circuit.

They seem like a giant PITA in general wherever I read about them and no one really likes having to use them other than electrical inspectors.

I've read on other forums in electrical discussions about people changing all them out the minute the inspector signs off and walks away.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
So a follow up question: Does it violate code to replace this breaker with a normal one? I figured I'd at least need to replace one of the outlets with a GFI, since this breaker provides that function for the entire circuit.

Yes, if your AHJ required them in that location when the house was built, or if you have extended the circuit, or rewired an existing circuit.

GFCIs protect personnel while AFCIs protect structures. The larger concern would be the discussion with your insurance carrier after a house fire caused by arcing on a circuit that was required to be AFCI protected, but you eliminated that protection. That would suck.

Having said that, I’m not aware of any requirement for AFCI protection in a garage. Does your AHJ have an amendment? You may want to consider a GFCI breaker (yellow button) for that garage circuit (assuming that circuit doesn’t service receptacles elsewhere in the house).

Regarding code, usually, in my experience, there is a gfci requirement for circuits near water only. Local codes may be different.

Second the suggestion to go to regular breakers where you can and install a whole house surge suppressor.

A quick test of the breaker would be to swap the 'Hot' wire with an adjacent AFCI (while the breakers are switched OFF, of course) and see if the problem moves to the other breaker.

If the problem remains with the original breaker, even though it is now monitoring an altogether different circuit, then it may need replacing.

If the problem follows the wire to the other breaker, there is likely a problem with a load or, possibly, the receptacle wiring or receptacle itself. You could use an extension cord to shift the loads (one at a time) to another circuit to try to find the offender.
If that should fail I would begin pulling receptacles to see if there is a wiring issue with one (or more) of them.

Only do this if you have some experience working with electrical equipment or consider yourself to be a reasonably 'handy' person.

quote:

Originally posted by cruiser68:
Regarding code, usually, in my experience, there is a gfci requirement for circuits near water only. Local codes may be different.

Second the suggestion to go to regular breakers where you can and install a whole house surge suppressor.

Depending on which version of the code your town uses , AFCI protection is probably required there . Replacing an AFCI or GFCI with a conventional breaker will probably violate all versions . A whole house surge suppressor is irrelevant to this discussion , but not a bad idea in general .

I just remembered that I filmed the memory recall of those Square D HOM breakers in a video I made for my brothers. I was reviewing the Klein RT390. This shows how to access the breaker's memory.


Recalling a AFCI trip, jump ahead to 3:15.
Recalling a GFCI trip, jump ahead to 4:15.

The following are my thoughts about AFCI breakers.

My new sub-panel that I installed last winter. As you can see from the picture, I'm a fan of AFCI protection. I guess I'm very lonely in this. I have also installed quite a few AFCI/GFCI breakers in several of my rental properties.



The internet is full of people who call these breakers garbage. They claim that they do not last, or that they nuisance trip constantly. I wonder how much of this is nuisance tripping vs the breaker doing its job. My experience, OTOH, has been quite different. I installed my first one in 2016, in a house that I personally rewired after a partial rebuild after a house fire. In the years since, I have installed them in several other properties, with ZERO, not a single one, ever nuisance tripping.

Why is my experience different? Perhaps it's because I have mostly been installing them in my own properties after my own wiring. My current house, the one with the above panel, was built in 2004. It is a higher end-home, with higher-end features. Therefore, you'd think that all the trades would be above average. Not so. I went through every outlet and replaced every receptacle, mostly because I wanted spec-grade TR receptacles. Every 15a receptacle circuit was back-stabbed. I found three splices that were loose (multiple wires jammed under a wire nut, with loose wires, barely twisted). I found a few open grounds, where the ground wires were just loosely jammed in the back of a Greenie without really twisting the nut. I went through every outlet, and made up tight, pre-twisted splices, and pigtailed all my receptacles. On some, where I anticipate a future remodel, I used Wago 221 connectors to make up the splices. I also made up all my grounds using crimps and a Buchanan C-24 crimper. Also, just yesterday, I was helping my son at his three-year-old townhouse. He had tripped the outside receptacle GFCI, and couldn't find where to reset it. I took apart the first outside outlet, and the four-wire splice just fell apart in my hands. Great. The house is nearly brand new. It may have been wired by a licensed electrician, but that splice was made by his second-day apprentice. In my experience, most homes have at least some poorly made splices. Arc fault breakers will identify these before your house burns to the ground. (Side note: I found my son's elusive GFCI receptacle hidden in a closet under a stair well ).

So, where does that leave us? A breaker starts "nuisance" tripping. Do you immediately blame the breaker, or do you actually have the circuit checked? Perhaps it has a rub point, and the insulation is now compromised. Or maybe somebody drove a nail while hanging a picture. Have you pulled each receptacle to check for bad connections? Are your receptacles all back-stabbed (how this is still UL listed is beyond me)? Any frayed lamp cords? Failing appliances? Rodent damage?

I have gone into an apartment of mine in the basement of a 1946 house, after a report from a tenant of no power at a receptacle. They had plugged in a space heater, notwithstanding my lease's prohibition on using them. The receptacle was so loose that it wouldn't hold a plug. It had been so hot that the face plate was melted. The insulation on the conductors was melted over an inch back from the receptacle. Also, I found the previous owner had extended the circuit with a 16ga lamp cord behind the sheetrock. I corrected all problems I could see, and installed AFCI breakers in that panel. Some might say that is excessive and a waste of money. I cannot inspect every inch of wiring in all my properties, but those AFCIs will give me peace-of-mind until I can rewire that property.

In my experience, AFCI breakers work quite well when the electrical workmanship is done to a high standard. I don't understand why anyone would want to forgo the protection they offer.