Member behavior and the administering of SIGforum

December 30, 2019, 08:40 PM

I don’t agree with everything here. Hell there have been a handful of times over the years that I have thought WTF?? There are times I get the feeling Para is a get off my grass curmudgeon.....which frankly is the pot calling the kettle black as I am similar.

The reality is I am in somebody else’s house and I abide by those rules. If those rules cross my personal lines I will pack my shit and leave.

I have found this forum to be generally made up of knowledgeable, helpful, charitable, wonderful folks with the occasional asshole thrown in for color. I have found the moderation to be strong and sometimes a bit heavy handed but the benefit of this is a forum I keep coming back to for all things. There are rare trolls. Members always lend a helping hand or at least a shoulder and there is always great information to be gleaned.

Point is all in all this is one of the best forums of any topic I have been a part of. If that means I need to take my shoes off at the door so be it. If that means I have to abide by the owners own personal hot buttons from time to time so be it. Let face it if I or most of the rest of us started a forum our own bias and hot buttons would show through from time to time no matter how hard we tried.

Like I said great forum. Mostly great members and moderation that has been largely successful. I got no complaints with that and if I did......well nobody is holding a SIG to my head.

As always take care and shoot safe,
Chris.

December 30, 2019, 08:46 PM

sdy

I've been around a while. I have "evolved".

At first I liked SIGforum. But now with the craziness going on in our country, I need SIGforum.

There is so much going on that is completely illogical (to me) and I can't comprehend it.

So it keeps me centered to come here and share info w people who, even when we disagree, I generally understand where they are coming from. We have rational disagreement.

Being part of an open forum requires at least a bit of thick skin. Occasionally a thread you like will get locked. There is so much positive here, it just feels like a good place to be. I am not going to let a few times when I think "What was that all about ?" get in the way of being part of this group.

December 30, 2019, 08:55 PM

Excam_Man

I like it here.

Happy New Year!

December 30, 2019, 09:03 PM

i8mtm

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by i8mtm:
I was NOT re-starting the Epstein thread. I specifically avoided even mentioning what I posted. I was just using it as an example to illustrate my point.

I have no idea why the MGTOW thread was deleted.

And now I do realize that when posts are instantly deleted it is not a technical glitch.
I'm glad that got cleared up. Now, about me being anti-Second Amendment, man, I did not know that controlling the content of this forum made me anti-2A. Imagine my surprise! Thanks for letting me know. I mean, I'm all aligned with big tech, Google and the like. Damn! This is news to me. Wait 'til I tell the wife.

One question, though- and I'll ask you, because you seem to know- If I refrain from locking, editing or deleting any content in this forum- if I let whomever post whatever any way they wish, am I back in good with the Second? 'Cause, man, I surely didn't mean for that to happen. So, if I play like I'm a doormat and everything is acceptable to be posted here, am I cool with the Constitution? I mean, I don't see the connection, but you do, so, you know, I'm just asking.

Here I was thinking that a place such as this fostered new shooters, encouraged gun sales, provided a portal where germane, informative political content could be gleaned- Hell, I figured I was on the right side of things, maybe even doing a bit of good, and here I find out all of a sudden like, that I am anti-gun! Help me, man!

Para, please - don't pin a straw-man argument on me. I NEVER said, nor did I mean to imply you were anti 2nd Amendment. I made the *observation* that your techniques of censorship were identical to those used by Big Tech.

Sigforum does a tremendous amount of good and there is a wealth of excellent knowledge shared here on a daily basis.

You asked for feedback in how you run this forum. In my opinion, you do not like when people disagree with you. It frequently results in censorship that I believe is unwarranted.

Censoring people that are off-topic, posting threats, or just generally being an ass is entirely different. Kudos to you for patrolling that.

Regards,

-i8mtm

December 30, 2019, 09:10 PM

parabellum

Strawman? Well, let's take a look at what you said :

quote:
Originally posted by i8mtm:
It is just disheartening to see that someone who is supposedly a champion of the 2nd Amendment, and I would assume (or hope) a supporter of all the others – frequently displays vindictive, arbitrary and unhelpful censorship on his own forum.

"supposedly" a champion of the Second Amendment? Supposedly? Mmmmmmm, there seems to be some room for interpretation of your intent with such a remark, and why you even went in that direction is a mystery to me. Seems kinda like, oh, I don't know, a cheap and lazily obvious shot (gun forum, censorship- what to do? Go after the Second! Obvious and easy!), but hey, I could be wrong (although this ploy has been tried err point has been made many times before). But, no, I don't see a strawman. I didn't bring in the 2A. You did that, big as life. So, strawman? Nah, not unless it's your straw.

But, hey, no problem. I just thought you just might have some good advice for me on the dilemma of managing content and keeping everyone happy. That's a fine line, man. A razor's edge, one might even say.

I mean, I went and got out a big ol' pad of paper, got a new ball point pen. I was ready to write down some tips, some wisdom, some sage advice, 'cause it's hard, and I'll take any help I can get.

December 30, 2019, 09:11 PM

redstone

I am not sure you understand the word 'censorship'

All social organizations must have rules. No ones opinion is 'censored' unless you do not follow the rules. Why would you even think to use that word? Folks disagree with Para all the time, Para disagrees with folk all the time, but to call moderating the forum and effective rules 'censorship' is just wrong.

December 30, 2019, 09:12 PM

Balzé Halzé

quote:
Originally posted by sdy:
I've been around a while. I have "evolved".

At first I liked SIGforum. But now with the craziness going on in our country, I need SIGforum.

There is so much going on that is completely illogical (to me) and I can't comprehend it.

So it keeps me centered to come here and share info w people who, even when we disagree, I generally understand where they are coming from. We have rational disagreement.

Being part of an open forum requires at least a bit of thick skin. Occasionally a thread you like will get locked. There is so much positive here, it just feels like a good place to be. I am not going to let a few times when I think "What was that all about ?" get in the way of being part of this group.

Though I haven't been around as long as you (not even close), I nevertheless must echo this entire post.

And yeah, some days one might think that Para has it out just for you, but eventually you come to the realization that every member here has probably had that same thought a time or two. Knowing this goes a long way in my continued existence and enjoyment here.

December 30, 2019, 09:13 PM

220-9er

It's tough to be the boss but somebody's got to be the boss.
If you were perfect in every respect, not everybody would agree with every decision but most would (and do).
Sometimes, maybe most times, it may seem like a thankless job.
The one thing that puzzles me, although I'm sure you have a reason so this is just a question, not a criticism.
The classifieds seem to have more low post count folks and they seem to be a disproportionate number of the problems you have to deal with. That's also a way to get people interested that may not come here otherwise. Is that why you don't require a minimum number of posts or time before letting them sell here?
My other observation is that the ratio of quality people to flakes is much better here than forums, both firearms related or not. That is no doubt due to your diligence and the other members that ride herd and care enough to occasionally flag any troublemakers.
Otherwise, thanks for the opportunity to participate.

December 30, 2019, 09:15 PM

frayedends

I've been here a while. I've learned quite a lot.

As far as you go, Boss, I have to say that I have a completely different opinion today than I did when I first joined. You have to keep in mind I was used to most other types of forums that aren't really a community as we have here. There were times when I thought you really were being an ass to some member, moderating them or banning them when they appeared to just be disagreeing with you. But this was all when I was a newbie, the "waiver" talk was nonstop and I had no idea what a great community this place is.

Now, I don't often heap praise on Para. I don't want to seem like an ass kisser (as some people like to call anyone that praises the boss). I also know that Para seems very humble and rarely reply to praise posts.

But the truth is there really is no other forum like this that I've come across. I have guns but rarely post about the gun topic. I spend most of my time in the lounge discussing everyday life.

All in all what I can say is that I don't expect Para to tell me how to do my job and I've learned that no matter what I think about certain threads/posts Para knows more than I do when it comes to moderating a forum. It isn't my expertise. Whenever I'm in doubt I just give it time or read related posts from the members in question and I come to realize Para knows what he is doing.

I guess what I'm saying is when Para puts the kibosh on a post or member it is for good reason. Maybe sometimes it seems to be jumping the gun but he knows when someone is up to some trolling shit or just posting crap that we don't need here. That's why we are here for years and years. We don't get sick of being here because the bullshit we see on other forums doesn't last long here.

So sometimes I may disagree with you boss, but I'm not about to call you out because usually I find out I was wrong. Don't tell anyone I know though, since I've convinced them I'm always right.

To the other members of this forum I'd offer one piece of advice. If a new member makes a mistake then help them out. Explain how this forum works. There isn't a waiver, but there are rules and they are unwritten. So new members screw up from time to time. Telling them to read the waiver, or that the Boss isn't going to like this, or just messing with them, well that doesn't help. They get defensive, maybe bitchy, maybe banned. All because they didn't know what they stepped in to and maybe with a little help they could be awesome members.

That's all I guess.

December 30, 2019, 09:19 PM

sig77

I love the forum and most of the people. Don’t change a thing. Follow the rules and appreciate the great company and moderators. Thanks Para!

December 30, 2019, 09:28 PM

parabellum

quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
The one thing that puzzles me, although I'm sure you have a reason so this is just a question, not a criticism.
The classifieds seem to have more low post count folks and they seem to be a disproportionate number of the problems you have to deal with. That's also a way to get people interested that may not come here otherwise. Is that why you don't require a minimum number of posts or time before letting them sell here?

No, I don't allow new members to use Classifieds with the intent of drawing them in. Frankly, that didn't even occur to me. I just cling to the foolish hope that people will behave ethically and not use us like a wash rag. Alas, my hopes are dashed daily.

It's funny you bring this up, because yesterday I was thinking of implementing a 200 post requirement before members can use Classifieds, but that would have to be enforced manually, because the forum software does not provide for such a thing.

'course I could deputize some of the town folk- a permanent posse, so to speak...

December 30, 2019, 09:29 PM

oddball

quote:
Originally posted by redstone:
I had a thread disappear today. I know why, I got excited and I posted a topic that was a repost of a closed thread AND broke a rule I/we had just been reminded of.

Same. Most likely my thread.

But do I get bent out of shape? . No. Why?

I am not the executive producer of this project. This is basically live TV in a way. Most ideas pass, some ideas don't.

Imagine this site with out editing staff, a director to oversee content. It would be a clusterfuck.

Not my first thread to be locked. Mistakes are made, sometimes shit thrown against the wall to see what sticks. We're all adults (hopefully most). Something doesn't stick, you shrug and move on.

December 30, 2019, 09:32 PM

parabellum

Y'see, this is good- a cleansing, a purging, one might say- a high colonic in preparation for the coming new year. Get it all out.

There will be some revision of the waiver. For 2020, we will require a DNA sample, a credit report, psych eval. nothing major.

December 30, 2019, 09:37 PM

Dzozer

quote:
Originally posted by sig77:
I love the forum and most of the people. Don’t change a thing. Follow the rules and appreciate the great company and moderators. Thanks Para!

My sentiments as well - thank you!

December 30, 2019, 09:38 PM

oddball

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
Y'see, this is good- a cleansing, a purging, one might say- a high colonic in preparation for the coming new year. Get it all out.

December 30, 2019, 09:39 PM

dave7378

Heavy lies the crown. It is not easy being in a position of leadership. It just isn't. Everyone wants to be the boss until they have to be.

December 30, 2019, 09:40 PM

parabellum

Seems like a good time to point out that for many years, I have, from time to time, posted the following:

The administration of SIGforum reserves the right to lock, edit, move or delete any content, for any reason at all, or no reason whatsoever.

December 30, 2019, 09:42 PM

Pipe Smoker

I love SigForum. Well administered, with excellent site tools (I even love its search facility

). Mostly good members here, and it’s a reliable source of real news in a maelstrom of MSM propaganda.

The thing I love most: the interesting threads. There are days that I think I’d die of boredom if it weren’t for SigForum.

So glad that you built this haven for us Para. I thank you for it.

December 30, 2019, 09:43 PM

cslinger

I’ve had a psych evaluation for jobs. I am sane and have papers that say so. So can I just provide blood, urine and credit card and skip the rest.

December 30, 2019, 09:45 PM

parabellum

Urine? Let's not get weird. Just spit in a vile, tell the headshrink why you hate your mama, and get Equifax to email us.