quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

As the boomers die off, everyone after them is left holding the massive national debt bag. The day of reckoning hasn't happened yet. When it comes it could rival the Great Depression.

Not only true, but there's a deeper thought hidden there. No person is responsible for someone else's actions. No child is responsible to pay his parent's debts. As the national debt spirals up, very much of it is due to long-past spending. It isn't debt from fixing a road last summer or fighting a world war for the past 5 years. Some of the debt is from before half the country was born.

At some point, a large portion of voters will refuse to be responsible for the debt problem, and rightly so.

They'll blame the boomers even though every generation voted for, and were elected to office, creating the debt. Rightly or wrongly, it will be the excuse to default on the debt.

The crisis will be epic, far beyond the Great Depression.

quote:

Not only true, but there's a deeper thought hidden there. No person is responsible for someone else's actions. No child is responsible to pay his parent's debts. As the national debt spirals up, very much of it is due to long-past spending.

I have told this to my now adult children: "Yours is the generation that will repudiate all this debt. At some point you will be so burdened by it that you will figure out that you didn't incur this debt and you will decide you don't want to be responsible for it."

At that point, everything changes.

quote:

The crisis will be epic, far beyond the Great Depression.

Yes.

This is nonsense. The government is responsible for it's debts - "full faith and credit of the U.S.A."

Defaulting means skyrocketing interest rates, crashing of the dollar, crashing of T-bill yields, banking collapse, and institutional investment collapse - a.k.a. pension funds.

If anyone thinks things are unaffordable now, just wait...

Facts.

Someone who makes a median salary of $50k, takes home $3.2k after taxes.

Once housing, food and transportation is taken out, even in some of the most affordable cities, they are left with under $2k.

That gives them $195k (we will round to $200k) in savings at age 30.

Even if we bump their income to $65k at 30, and use all $200k in savings, that leaves you with a $400k house that you can afford.

Newflash: that doesn’t come close to a house in most urban/suburban areas, which is where jobs for people 20-35 exist.

No phones, vacations, dates, nothing for 9 years. Still not close.

quote:

This is nonsense. The government is responsible for it's debts - "full faith and credit of the U.S.A."

By 2042 net interest will squeeze out everything else... we are creating a generation of debt slaves.

Think Uncle Sam Owes $37 Trillion? It's Far Worse Than That

https://www.zerohedge.com/econ...illion-its-far-worse

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
This is nonsense. The government is responsible for it's debts - "full faith and credit of the U.S.A."

Defaulting means skyrocketing interest rates, crashing of the dollar, crashing of T-bill yields, banking collapse, and institutional investment collapse - a.k.a. pension funds.

If anyone thinks things are unaffordable now, just wait...

Do you have your hand on the wheel Captain Crunch? My family is fairly well prepared.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
This is nonsense. The government is responsible for it's debts - "full faith and credit of the U.S.A."

Defaulting means skyrocketing interest rates, crashing of the dollar, crashing of T-bill yields, banking collapse, and institutional investment collapse - a.k.a. pension funds.

If anyone thinks things are unaffordable now, just wait...

Do you have your hand on the wheel Captain Crunch? My family is fairly well prepared.

no need to be coy, thank you for making my point.

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
no need to be coy, thank you for making my point.

Ummm OK, you are 100% correct! I think I get it now. Thanks for the lesson in logic. I'll be forever grateful for your deep logic and forward thinking!

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Young people who “can’t afford” a house seem to afford a whole bunch of shit that earlier generations didn’t have, couldn’t afford, and didn’t need.

Expensive phones, expensive cars, expensive vacations, fancy coffees, eating out regularly, this list writes itself. Plus the reason they don’t make a lot of 1198 sq ft houses is because younger people would not buy them. They can get bigger apartments.

When my wife and I got married we had an apartment for the first year. It was the cheapest apartment we could find. It didn't even have air conditioning. We ate the cheapest food we could buy. We drove beater cars. We scrimped and saved and within a year we had a down payment for our first house. It was only a 1440 square foot home, but we thought it was a castle.

But... back then nobody had a cell phone or a cable bill.

Problem is, 90% of the people 35 and under won't scrimp at all or save. At least here in South Florida, they all drive leased BMW or Mercedes while drinking their starbucks latte and and texting on their iphone 17 pro while driving down the street!

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Young people who “can’t afford” a house seem to afford a whole bunch of shit that earlier generations didn’t have, couldn’t afford, and didn’t need.

Expensive phones, expensive cars, expensive vacations, fancy coffees, eating out regularly, this list writes itself. Plus the reason they don’t make a lot of 1198 sq ft houses is because younger people would not buy them. They can get bigger apartments.

When my wife and I got married we had an apartment for the first year. It was the cheapest apartment we could find. It didn't even have air conditioning. We ate the cheapest food we could buy. We drove beater cars. We scrimped and saved and within a year we had a down payment for our first house. It was only a 1440 square foot home, but we thought it was a castle.

But... back then nobody had a cell phone or a cable bill.

Problem is, 90% of the people 35 and under won't scrimp at all or save. At least here in South Florida, they all drive leased BMW or Mercedes while drinking their starbucks latte and and texting on their iphone 17 pro while driving down the street!

jimmy, you and everyone else is absolutely ignoring the PROBLEM.

If you are part of the 10% who does scrimp and save, you still can’t buy a house.

That is why no one is having kids right now.

We can fix the Starbucks issue and iPhone issue later; I’m focusing on those that do it RIGHT.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Young people who “can’t afford” a house seem to afford a whole bunch of shit that earlier generations didn’t have, couldn’t afford, and didn’t need.

Expensive phones, expensive cars, expensive vacations, fancy coffees, eating out regularly, this list writes itself. Plus the reason they don’t make a lot of 1198 sq ft houses is because younger people would not buy them. They can get bigger apartments.

When my wife and I got married we had an apartment for the first year. It was the cheapest apartment we could find. It didn't even have air conditioning. We ate the cheapest food we could buy. We drove beater cars. We scrimped and saved and within a year we had a down payment for our first house. It was only a 1440 square foot home, but we thought it was a castle.

But... back then nobody had a cell phone or a cable bill.

Problem is, 90% of the people 35 and under won't scrimp at all or save. At least here in South Florida, they all drive leased BMW or Mercedes while drinking their starbucks latte and and texting on their iphone 17 pro while driving down the street!

jimmy, you and everyone else is absolutely ignoring the PROBLEM.

If you are part of the 10% who does scrimp and save, you still can’t buy a house.

That is why no one is having kids right now.

We can fix the Starbucks issue and iPhone issue later; I’m focusing on those that do it RIGHT.

You absolutely can, you just have to prepare yourself by scrimping and saving and wait for the next opportunity. Generally there is a slow down or recession every 7-10 years. 1987, 1994 dot com burst, 2001, 2008-2013. 2009-2014 was an excellent time as prices on real estate were incredibly cheap, 2019-2021 also an excellent time with interest rates at 3% on a fixed 30 year mortgage.

I know someone that's 50, who has never made over $40k in his life and owns 7 condos all worth around $200k each and all of them now paid off. He scrimped and bought the first, then the second, then the next and next and next.......and rented them out, then started paying one off at a time, starting in early 2003 without anyone's help and making $25-30k a year back then. No College education.

Excuses are for people that don't have the drive to do.

Jimmy, I believe you are familiar with South Florida. I’m not interested in a story from 2003, that might as well be 1903.

Today, a young man who scrimps and saves and has $200k saved up, cash, at age 30, earning a median salary cannot buy a house. They are all well above the range that is affordable.

Sure, if the economy crashes he might have a shot… if he still is employed.

^^^ People are arguing from the past, or from their local specific situation. And digging in rather than opening their eyes.

I was skeptical too. My son who is 22 helped me see. Houses have doubled in cost since 2020, salaries have not. Everything else has increased 20%. College tuition is way up as well, increasing way faster than inflation.

Salaries have not even kept up with inflation. Companies do not give cost of living adjustments. Even during the Biden years of high inflation, companies begrudgingly gave 3% annual raises.

It's just that simple.

quote:

Today, a young man who scrimps and saves and has $200k saved up, cash, at age 30, earning a median salary cannot buy a house.

Here in the St. Louis metro area he could still pay cash for something that isn't extravagant, and buy something very extravagant with that downpayment.

Of our 5 kids, 4 are married and own homes. Texas, Colorado, Massachusetts, and Connecticut. All are in their 30's with from 2 to 5 kids each. Three of the 4 homeowners are single income families though at times all but 1 have had two paychecks at some point.

All are in their 30's. All are more or less following the Dave Ramsey philosophy.

So, yes, it certainly can be done. I don't think it is as easy as 40+ years ago if we look at ratios of income to home prices or the other burdens such as taxes and regulation. But also the post WWII era up through the 80's was unusual in growth of wealth. The first homes my grandparents or further back owned were much smaller and hardly luxurious, if they ever owned a single family house.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
Houses have doubled in cost since 2020.

Are people no longer buying houses with this massive increase? Of course they are still being sold. And extending the terms of financing and mortgages is how it’s being done.

For a few saying “it can’t be done”, it’s being done. And the new iPhone strategy is how it’s being done.

We have gone from people wanting a living wage to people wanting a lifestyle wage. They could care less about the long term, about how much interest it’s going to be, or how long the payments are. They want to live a lifestyle with no regard for what’s best or what it actually costs. Those who are floating the goods and services consumed are maximizing profits. It is a system put in place by the “what’s the payment” crowd.

When/if it is no longer profitable for those holding the note, it will change. As long as they can keep making maximum returns off of their money, they will. Hence the 30-50 year mortgages.

We as a society are doing this. To say something like “we can fix the smart phone/Starbucks problem later”, you’re not paying attention to the fact that it is the formula that got us here. The less impulse control you have, the more profitable you are to a lender. It’s the always-a-new-phone lifestyle.

jljones, apparently I am not expressing myself correctly.

I am not discounting the iPhone/Starbucks idiots; I am trying to establish if there is a problem.

Today, 2025, houses are unaffordable. Fellow forum members have stated that in the 70’s, 80’s, 2003, and even 2020 it was possible to buy a house by doing the “right” things, scrimping, saving etc.

My baseline is TODAY, who is 30 years old and has a median salary of $60k + $200k in savings, cannot buy a house in most places in the US that employ a 30 year old.

There are exceptions, of course, but I’m talking the norm across the US.

No, you are just failing to listen to what others are saying. You keep banging the same drum, as if no 30 something ever can afford a house. Or that all 30 something’s only exist in the highest housing markets.

You have made your point a dozen times. Repeating it again doesn’t make it true. In the highest of housing markets, 30 something’s CHOOSE to put themselves there. I am failing to see them being thrown into a van with a hood over their head, and forced at gunpoint to work there.

The economy and reasons the market is there is outlined in my post above.

Follow the money. Only when people refuse to finance things any longer will things change. We are artificially inflating the prices through poor financial choices. When financing can no longer be obtained, and houses set empty, will the supply/demand value drop.

Even companies are fleeing states with artificial economies. Dr Evil isn’t behind this. Our lifestyle is.

So, you agree with the argument.

By the way, it’s not the highest of housing markets. Here is the list:

https://www.nar.realtor/sites/...amily-2025-11-06.pdf

You have to be employed in order to buy anything, including a home. Compare that to major employment for people under 35.

Amazing how tone deaf people are being. You guys are doing the meme:



It's not impossible for a 30-year-old with a good job, good credit history, good savings, reasonable frugalness, in a reasonable cost of living area, to buy a house. My son at 22 has saved well, has no debt, is responsible with money, well educated, and hard working, should do fine. And yes, he has parents with very good education and good jobs that are paying for his education so he has no debt when he graduates.

But we are talking about the average person, the vast majority of people that do not make enough money to buy a house. The average age of first home purchase is 40 now. A family with 40-year-old parents should already have kids 5-10 years old.

Yes some people buy nice cars they can't afford on leases or long term loans to look cool. Yes some people get a new iPhone every year. Yes some people spend $10 at Starbucks every day. But it's not everyone or even close to the majority of people. In the past, similar minded people wasted their money on other frivolous things. When I was in my 20's a coworker complained about other people our age, with cars and boats and houses and a pile of credit card debt, filing bankruptcy, discharging most of the debt, then starting over and doing the same thing. As long as they didn't need to buy another house within 7 years they would end up being OK. This is nothing new.

When you DOUBLE the cost of homes in half a decade, after you jacked up tuition so high that kids without parents that can pay for their education have to take loans, you change the entire system.

And the problem is that large middle ground of people that can't afford homes now, THEY VOTE, and they are likely to vote for socialists that promise the world, like the new mayor in New York City. And if the democrats get control of the Federal government again, you know they will pack the court, open the borders, and do everything to undo the good that Trump is doing.