You shouldn’t be surprised. FAMS have always held a pretty strong standard when it comes to shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:

quote:

Has any Federal Air Marshal fired a gun on a flight?

If they hit a window, wouldn't that cause a huge pressure differential which would suck the nearest stewardess right out the window?

Yes, it would, but the only victim I know of was Auric Goldfinger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHXevnoAciY

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
If they hit a window, wouldn't that cause a huge pressure differential which would suck the nearest stewardess right out the window?

No, as discussed several times here on the forum, "explosive decompression" of an airplane from a bullet has been tested and debunked, most famously on Mythbusters, but elsewhere too.


Here's a good synopsis: https://www.smithsonianmag.com...-pressure-142253641/

For those who don't feel like reading an entire article, here's the pertinent part:

quote:

Pilot and author David Lombardo writes in his book Advanced Aircraft Systems: “Hollywood has fostered an image of rapid cabin depressurization that has come to be known as explosive decompression. [Someone] shoots a hole into the side of an aircraft and it results in total loss of cabin pressure with paper, food trays, and baggage flying everywhere...”

“Reality simply does not work that way,” explains Lombardo. “A bullet hole in a cabin wall would have no perceived effect on cabin pressure…. A bullet hole is far smaller than the opening of the outflow valve [through which cabin air escapes during routine depressurization]. In fact, such a hole would account for less air leakage than what is normally lost around door and window seals.”

Even if they somehow managed to knock out an entire window, it's not going to be that dramatic:

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On July 13, 2009, a Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-300 (Flight 2294) depressurized after a one-foot hole appeared in its upper fuselage... The cabin depressurized about 30 minutes into the flight at 34,000 feet, and no injuries were reported, although the NTSB noted “The damage left a hole measuring approximately 17 inches by 8 inches.”

In the event of a larger hole in the fuselage, there’s more risk of hypothermia than decompression.

(That 17" x 8" hole was larger than the average 12.5" x 9" airplane window.)


It would take something much more dramatic than a bullet hole (or holes), or even an entire missing window, to cause that catastrophic of a scenario for people to get "sucked out". Like the famous case of Aloha Air 243 in 1988, where an entire 18 foot section of the fuselage ripped off mid-flight due to metal fatigue and corrosion, resulting in a flight attendant being ejected and falling to her death.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:

quote:

Has any Federal Air Marshal fired a gun on a flight?

If they hit a window, wouldn't that cause a huge pressure differential which would suck the nearest stewardess right out the window?

Yes, it would, but the only victim I know of was Auric Goldfinger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHXevnoAciY

No. There was also some ole boy they found in a farmers bath tub. Looked like gumbo.

quote:

Originally posted by Abn556:
... also shoot at this range and I've seen quite a lot of mediocre shooting.

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30 rounds, 7 stages.
Example: one shot from the draw, holster; repeat draw and holster, shoot time cumulative of 3.3 seconds.
If you can't shoot from 7 yards, it might be time to stop.

I've posted this story before on here but one time on a flight an attendant came up to me and asked me if I was carrying. I was wearing khakis and a polo shirt, traveling on business. I was bewildered as I have a permit to carry, but how would the airline know that? I didn't have a checked firearm or anything. He asked me several times before the guy next to me said "I think you meant me" or something and "no I am not." I was like....WTF!?! The guy quietly shook his head and said "Idiots...don't worry, let's just say you're VERY safe." Then another flight attendant came by and asked the same thing all over again and the guy told him the same thing and said something to the effect of "you need to stop, you're going to get someone hurt" Turns out he was a DSS agent traveling for work but not "on the job." We had a great conversation during the flight once we got to talking about police officers I knew as an attorney and guns and what not, I gave him my card to touch base and have a drink if he is ever in town again. Of course I never heard from him again.

Here's a decompression incident I had not heard about:

When a British Airways Captain got sucked out of a BAC One-Eleven a flight attendant grabbed his legs and avoided him going out completely

By Dario Leone
Jul 21 2022

"British Airways Flight 5390 was a flight from Birmingham Airport in England for Málaga Airport in Spain. On Jun. 10, 1990, the BAC One-Eleven 528FL suffered explosive decompression resulting in no loss of life. With the aircraft flying over Didcot, Oxfordshire, an improperly installed windscreen panel separated from its frame, causing the plane’s captain to be blown partially out of the aircraft. With the captain pinned against the window frame for twenty minutes, the first officer landed at Southampton Airport.

‘On Jun. 10, 1990, the windscreen blew out in front of the captain of British Airways Flight 5390 shortly after takeoff from Birmingham, England,’ George Smith, an aviation expert, says on Quora. ‘The change in pressure sucked Captain Tim Lancaster (age 42) out of the aircraft, but his legs were grabbed by flight attendant Nigel Ogden. Without such heroics, Lancaster would have fallen to his death or been sucked into the plane’s engine..."

Complete article:

https://theaviationgeekclub.co...oing-out-completely/

quote:

Originally posted by Abn556:
There are some air marshals who train at the range that I shoot at. I shot next to one of their guys within the past year. He was surprisingly a very good shot.

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Wasn't there a thread on Sigforum a while back about FAM quals? I recall looking at it and visualizing it in my head.

Then I thought back to when I was live training once per week and winning the local 3 gun match once per month. And I remember thinking, "Damn, even then, when I was at my fastest, I could not have done that qual."

It's commonly known amongst Cliffy types that the only way to really cause damage short of explosives is to shoot the autopilot mechanism. I happen to know it looks like this:

FAMS are probably the best shots in the Federal LEO world. I was
in a mixed handgun class many, many years ago and a former Delta guy looked at me and said. “That guy can shoot”.