Harley Davidson CEO to step down. Who could ever have seen this coming?

February 29, 2020, 05:01 PM

Shotgun Zeke

I have thought Harley needs to sponsor a movie targeted to the 20-30 yo market to get their attention and make riding their products "cool" again.

February 29, 2020, 05:22 PM

Fundman

Motorcycles have never been popular in the US. Total sales of all manufactures is around 500,000. In India it is around 20 million per year and 16 million in China. There are motorcycle manufacturers in India like Bajaj and Hero that no one in the US has heard of and they sell 20 times the number that Harley sells.

In counties were people use motorcycles as daily transportation bikes are typically 125cc, 150cc or 200cc. Small and easy to maneuver. In the US bikes are for recreation and hobbyists so it is all about bigger is better. Anything under 650cc is mocked as a girls bike. These Harleys with 1746cc or 1923cc engines are ridiculous.

February 29, 2020, 05:56 PM

Lefty Sig

And a 125cc bike in India can carry 5 people!

Husband driving, child in front of him on the tank, wife behind him, with a small child in each of her arms. What could go wrong?

February 29, 2020, 07:38 PM

SOTAR

Speaking of Electric Bikes, There is this Eric Buell guy who apparently knows a little about bikes.

I saw the Flluid e-bike in person when a customer brought one in. It looked pretty good actually.

https://fuell.us/us/

February 29, 2020, 08:04 PM

CQB60

The era of the big bike is setting like the sun. HD’s success will come from growth in its core business outside the US. This will require product diversification & innovation. This will also mean smaller bikes & perhaps a line of ATV work type vehicles? That concept would be an interesting fit in pac rim nations and India.

February 29, 2020, 08:09 PM

PowerSurge

quote:
Originally posted by CQB60:
The era of the big bike is setting like the sun. HD’s success will come from growth in its core business outside the US. This will require product diversification & innovation. This will also mean smaller bikes & perhaps a line of ATV work type vehicles? That concept would be an interesting fit in pac rim nations and India.

Harley can’t compete with those ATV and other work type atv companies already in the market. They could never build a product with the same or better quality and/or with a competitive price.

February 29, 2020, 08:48 PM

bigdeal

quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by CQB60:
The era of the big bike is setting like the sun. HD’s success will come from growth in its core business outside the US. This will require product diversification & innovation. This will also mean smaller bikes & perhaps a line of ATV work type vehicles? That concept would be an interesting fit in pac rim nations and India.

Harley can’t compete with those ATV and other work type atv companies already in the market. They could never build a product with the same or better quality and/or with a competitive price.

Regardless whether that's true or not, HD's only alternative is to find a market (or markets) they can expand into with the HD. The niche product approach will ultimately guarantee their demise.

February 29, 2020, 08:52 PM

CQB60

Competition & price points, yep. Would love to be a fly on that board room wall..

quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by CQB60:
The era of the big bike is setting like the sun. HD’s success will come from growth in its core business outside the US. This will require product diversification & innovation. This will also mean smaller bikes & perhaps a line of ATV work type vehicles? That concept would be an interesting fit in pac rim nations and India.

Harley can’t compete with those ATV and other work type atv companies already in the market. They could never build a product with the same or better quality and/or with a competitive price.

February 29, 2020, 09:05 PM

Cousin Vinnie

As a former long time Harley rider, I say F*CK HARLEY! My first Harley was a 1953 Pan Head with the Mouse Trap clutch assembly, and over the decades, I had many of the various Harley models. Stuck up, arrogant, ignorant dealerships have soured me on Harley in favor of import models instead. As far as I'm concerned, Harley is getting what they deserve and I for one can care less if they go belly up! Harleys are overpriced, under performing dinosaurs that have seen their day come and go a couple times, but I think the final nail may be in their coffin??

February 29, 2020, 09:16 PM

Il Cattivo

We'll know when some retiree "revives" the brand out of his suburban garage.

February 29, 2020, 09:18 PM

bigdeal

quote:
Originally posted by Cousin Vinnie:
As a former long time Harley rider, I say F*CK HARLEY! My first Harley was a 1953 Pan Head with the Mouse Trap clutch assembly, and over the decades, I had many of the various Harley models. Stuck up, arrogant, ignorant dealerships have soured me on Harley in favor of import models instead. As far as I'm concerned, Harley is getting what they deserve and I for one can care less if they go belly up! Harleys are overpriced, under performing dinosaurs that have seen their day come and go a couple times, but I think the final nail may be in their coffin??

I hate to hear this attitude. I've owned exactly 'zero' HD's but have ridden with many friends and others who did. HD is an American icon and I for one hope they find a way to work through their current funk. I've long felt bad about Indian's demise as I would have loved to have seen them survive to compete in today's marketplace.

March 01, 2020, 12:06 AM

Snapping Twig

The trend to slam the suspensions hasn't helped either.

They don't handle all that well to begin with, then they took the comfort out of them for long haul riding with the short suspension.

I have friends with HD's that always complain that their backs hurt on our rides.

That doesn't sell bikes.

March 01, 2020, 05:40 AM

calugo

quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The Live Wire failure is just one issue. There’s a lot more to it than that. The market for Harleys is drying up. People want smaller, more reliable and better handling bikes. Their continually dropping sales numbers prove it. Getting rid of him is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

I think it's to early to consider the Livewire a failure since it just recently started arriving at dealerships. From what I read the Livewire is a test bed with other less expensive E-bikes to follow. While HD is struggling it's also true that motorcycle sales across the board have declined so it's not only HD that has seen a decline in sales although their sales have suffered more of a decline than other brands.

March 01, 2020, 06:38 AM

stickman428

Posted by Bigdeal.

quote:
I've long felt bad about Indian's demise as I would have loved to have seen them survive to compete in today's marketplace.

I wouldn’t feel too bad about Indian’s demise. Out of the company’s ashes something pretty neat has arisen and the brand is trying to make a comeback. (With the help of Polaris of course)

I’d take their FTR & Bobber over anything HD makes.

March 01, 2020, 08:41 AM

PowerSurge

quote:
Originally posted by calugo:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The Live Wire failure is just one issue. There’s a lot more to it than that. The market for Harleys is drying up. People want smaller, more reliable and better handling bikes. Their continually dropping sales numbers prove it. Getting rid of him is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

I think it's to early to consider the Livewire a failure since it just recently started arriving at dealerships. From what I read the Livewire is a test bed with other less expensive E-bikes to follow. While HD is struggling it's also true that motorcycle sales across the board have declined so it's not only HD that has seen a decline in sales although their sales have suffered more of a decline than other brands.

There’s no debating the current Live Wire for sale is a failure, test bed or not. Makes no difference if some of the technology is going to be used in other bikes. Besides, what does that say about HD if they’re beta testing the tech on their customers’ bikes?

March 01, 2020, 09:43 AM

shovelhead

quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:

There’s no debating the current Live Wire for sale is a failure, test bed or not. Makes no difference if some of the technology is going to be used in other bikes. Besides, what does that say about HD if they’re beta testing the tech on their customers’ bikes?

You can say that for just about any vehicle manufacturer here and abroad. Almost a half century in GM dealerships showed me that. The 700R4 transmission of the 80's, the Oldsmobile Diesel, Quad 4 engine, the 3.6 V6 that replaced the bulletproof 3800 V6, the Cadillac ATS are just a few of the standouts.

My thoughts for what they are worth, there has to be a end to the mantra that anybody can do any job. There is a need for people in the boardroom, engineering and marketing who take an interest in the product not just from a financial point but an emotional point. Like Vaughn Beals and the group that bought H-D from AMF.

March 01, 2020, 10:02 AM

ensigmatic

quote:
Originally posted by shovelhead:
... the Oldsmobile Diesel, ...

One of my best friends had one of those turkeys. Jebus, what a POS that was.

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher

March 01, 2020, 10:25 AM

PowerSurge

quote:
Originally posted by shovelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:

There’s no debating the current Live Wire for sale is a failure, test bed or not. Makes no difference if some of the technology is going to be used in other bikes. Besides, what does that say about HD if they’re beta testing the tech on their customers’ bikes?

You can say that for just about any vehicle manufacturer here and abroad. Almost a half century in GM dealerships showed me that. The 700R4 transmission of the 80's, the Oldsmobile Diesel, Quad 4 engine, the 3.6 V6 that replaced the bulletproof 3800 V6, the Cadillac ATS are just a few of the standouts.

My thoughts for what they are worth, there has to be a end to the mantra that anybody can do any job. There is a need for people in the boardroom, engineering and marketing who take an interest in the product not just from a financial point but an emotional point. Like Vaughn Beals and the group that bought H-D from AMF.

You can say that about Garbage Motors, Ford, and FCA.

March 01, 2020, 10:34 AM

shovelhead

quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by shovelhead:
... the Oldsmobile Diesel, ...

One of my best friends had one of those turkeys. Jebus, what a POS that was.

I exploded (!) one of those in the 80's. We towed it back to the dealership and found one of the rods on the crossmember. If you're going to do a job do it right I always say.

March 01, 2020, 10:59 AM

vthoky

quote:
Originally posted by stickman428:

I'm not a cruiser guy, but I'll say that looks pretty sharp.

That said, I know a few people who work at Zero Motorcycles, and I'm way curious about the practical comparisons between Livewire and Zero's offerings. And I'm curious how well Harley will survive the next decade.