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When did things change at the FBI?

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February 23, 2018, 04:42 PM
ZSMICHAEL
When did things change at the FBI?
I remember as a kid that everyone wanted to be a G man. The guy in a crisp white shirt, suit and tie that could solve any crime. Granted, J. Edgar Hoover ran the FBI with an iron fist, had dirt on every potential enemy and apparently had some unusual habits. Efrem Zimbalist Jr. was the perfect image at the time. What happened and why?
February 23, 2018, 04:45 PM
12131
quote:
Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
.... What happened and why?

Politicians took over.


Q






February 23, 2018, 04:49 PM
k5blazer
^^^^^^^
Nailed it!
February 23, 2018, 05:08 PM
sigfreund
I won’t argue that some things changed in very fundamental ways, but the FBI has been criticized many times in the past, and did things in the past that would be unacceptable—not to mention felony crimes if the movie was accurate—today (at least to outsiders).

The COINTELPRO (counterintelligence program) was an active measures operation started in the mid-1950s that was originally directed at US communists. Somewhat later it was expanded to include the Ku Klux Klan (among others). All that was fine with the people who knew about it at the time—who could object to targeting a bunch of racist southerners (except for those targeted, of course)?
At one point, though, it also targeted the civil rights movement, including ML King Jr. Then it became unacceptable and the FBI was heavily criticized for continuing to do much the same things that were applauded earlier.

As I’ve mentioned before, the science fiction editor John W. Campbell reportedly observed, “It is not power which corrupts, but immunity.” When the FBI has been given immunity for what it does, some of its people have been corrupted. I believe the organization still consists of many excellent people who do excellent things. What’s the chance that an agent chasing bank robbers in Topeka knew anything about, much less was involved, in the corruption that occurred prior to the last election?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
February 23, 2018, 05:14 PM
220-9er
I know there are good people there then and now but a lot of other stuff happens we don't know and never will.
The taxpayers and the good agents deserve better.
We'll never hear all the J. Edgar Hoover stuff but I hope some of the recent stuff doesn't go unpunished.


___________________________
Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible.
February 23, 2018, 05:26 PM
JALLEN
That was TV, no more reflective of actual real life than Ozzie and Harriet.

There were and always have been dedicated, hard working, scrupulously straight agents, but there have also been some working both sides of the street.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
February 23, 2018, 05:47 PM
jbcummings
Some clown lost the neutralizer, so they can’t cover up the mistakes...




———-
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup.
February 23, 2018, 05:48 PM
smschulz
It's never been the same since Efrem Zimbalist Jr. left.
February 23, 2018, 05:51 PM
braillediver
A fish rots from the head down. Comey before him Mueller for 12 years.


____________________________________________________

The butcher with the sharpest knife has the warmest heart.
February 23, 2018, 05:55 PM
HayesGreener
I worked with many FBI agents in the field over the years and as a group have found them to be conscientious and patriots of the first order. That said I can tell you my friends in FBI have been consistently critical of the upper echelons. Far too many of those people have succumbed to Potomac Fever.


CMSGT USAF (Retired)
Chief of Police (Retired)
February 23, 2018, 06:09 PM
jljones
quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:
I worked with many FBI agents in the field over the years and as a group have found them to be conscientious and patriots of the first order. That said I can tell you my friends in FBI have been consistently critical of the upper echelons. Far too many of those people have succumbed to Potomac Fever.


Yep. This. But, virtually every alphabet agency I work with are the same. We work a lot with the USMS and ATF. Great bunch of guys.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



February 24, 2018, 09:11 AM
pessimist
Everyone likes to sing the praises of the lower-level agents in these agencies. I guess that's the politically correct thing to do. But other than some whispered criticism of "management" that comes to us second hand via anecdotal accounts, what have these people actually done about the corruption in their own backyard?

The major players in these agencies could not have insulated themselves to the extent that no one else in the club has information or evidence of wrongdoing.
February 24, 2018, 10:20 AM
SIGSense
quote:
Originally posted by pessimist:
I guess that's the politically correct thing to do. But other than some whispered criticism of "management" that comes to us second hand via anecdotal accounts, what have these people actually done about the corruption in their own backyard?

The major players in these agencies could not have insulated themselves to the extent that no one else in the club has information or evidence of wrongdoing.


It's actually not PC to opine on the honesty, valor, and work ethic of the lower-level agents... it's just facts. If you've ever spent time in the military I can provide a good analogy:

You're a young troop that has been in the military for less than five years. You are TAUGHT that you're supposed to do something a certain way at basic and advanced schools. You are TAUGHT to follow orders and respect the rank/experience of those Sergeants and Officers above you.

One day you see "something" that appears to be in direct contradiction to what you were TAUGHT in the previous years. You bring it to the attention of your Sergeants, then Officers in the chain of command. They tell you that what you were TAUGHT is indeed correct, but to follow orders and do it a different way, or disregard previous training. Not wanting to piss off the chain of command, and believing that you're following orders, and seeking a promotion.... you conform.

End of story.
February 24, 2018, 12:05 PM
ChicagoSigMan
It's O'Sullivan's Law....Any institution that is not explicitly right wing will become left wing over time

O'Sullivan was the former editor of the National Review.