Realtors chime in...

October 08, 2017, 10:55 AM

JALLEN

quote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
quote:
Indeed, MLS rules treat listings as inviting offers which the owner/seller can accept or reject.

I have no real dog in this fight but this is one thing that has pissed me off in the past.

If a listing is an invitation for offers, then that's exactly what it should do. There's no need for a price to be attached if the sole purpose is to solicit offers.

Is there any other transaction that occurs in this fashion? If somebody offers an item for sale at a price and terms then they should be prepared to sell it at that price and for those terms. If you want to auction it then do so. Don't list it for sale at a price and then demand an auction.

I think it is this way for the practical factors I described before. Other than that, the listing price sets the commission due in the improbable event a ready willing and able buyer appears, makes an offer on the exact terms of the listing and the seller refuses it.

If you go to personal property sales, usually the price and terms of payment are the only details. In real estate transactions, there are dozens of little details, disclosures, inspections, contingencies, service providers, etc.

I’ve experienced extended wrangling over which title insurer would handle the deal. Everything else was agreed but that!

I got a call one night from a slightly inebriated friend of mine who was melting down in anxiety that he had sold his house to two different buyers. He had. It was a very desirable property in a very desirable area, and the negotiations to alleviate the situation were almost certainly the most delicate of my career.

One outfit in California had its listings proclaim, “Sellers will entertain offers between $xxxx and $yyyy.”

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JALLEN, October 08, 2017 01:10 PM

October 08, 2017, 03:08 PM

jimmy123x

quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Make the offer with a very short acceptance period such as 24 hours. This will force them to take it OR not. Most open houses attract 98% tire kickers that aren't even in the market for a house...... Whatever you do, I'd make the offer right away for asking price if that's what you want to pay, and get it on the table. I don't think they can counter an asking price offer????

Sure they can. The offer is an offer of certain terms. The seller can reject it, accept it, counteroffer (which is a rejection of the offer) or do nothing, letting any time period, or a reasinable time, expire.

The only ramification of rejecting a full price offer is possibly entitling the listing broker to payment of the commission. This in fact rarely happens, because there are nearly always terms, contingencies, details not exactly synonymous with the listing agreement, but can happen.

But it's not really an offer, if the seller is asking $300k with terms xyz, and you're willing to give them $300k and agree to their terms xyz, it's accepting their asking price.....I guess it would vary from state to state.....as you well know realty laws vary greatly from state to state.

Don’t quit your day job, Jimbo.

This is another instance of you coming up with ideas, quite novel and imaginative, that have no basis whatsoever in actual reality.

A ordinary broker listing is not construed as an offer empowering another to accept it. As far as I know, this is universally so in real estate transactions. In 40 years of real estate law and 35 years as a licensed real estate broker, involved in thousands of transactions as a buyer, seller, counsel to a buyer or seller, agent for a buyer or seller, lender, counsel to a title insurer, counsel to litigants and court appointed arbitrator, I have never heard of a successful argument, nor a decision otherwise. That doesn’t completely rule out the possibility that someone, somewhere, didn’t think they were doing this, under the Black Swan Rule, but there is no controlling legal authority for that interpretation.

Indeed, MLS rules treat listings as inviting offers which the owner/seller can accept or reject.

Even if it were so, the listing “offer” would have to specify every detail, price, terms, inspection periods, status of title, which escrow and title holder will handle the deal, etc. which, when the buyer “accepted” each and every detail, formed an enforceable contract.

There is another reason in practicality. A contract is formed upon receipt of an acceptance from any other party. A counteroffer is a rejection of an offer. If an owner received a “counteroffer” (not on precisely the identical terms of the “offer”), and wished to make a new offer to that buyer, he would be exposed to having two different “offers” out concurrently, leading to confusion and dispute when both are accepted simultaneously. This can happen as it is when a buyer makes offers on two different properties, but is much easier to manage, as well as far less common.

My name is James, do not call me Jimbo. My day job also includes ultra luxury real estate, although it is not the core. I oversee a $10 million luxury house for a client during the summer and am the only person he trusts to have access to it.

I'm going to inspect a $1.735 million house tomorrow for a very good customer of mine in Michigan. He'd rather pay me to pre-inspect every house for him (very well btw) he's interested in before he wastes his time to fly down from MI for every house that pops up on the market in the very strict/unique location he's looking at. Basically only 40 houses to choose from total.....I already manage his other luxury deepwater home in Pompano Beach, but he wants direct ICW, but his wife will only let him buy between 14 streets because she likes to walk to some diner for breakfast in the morning on the 2 random weeks a year she's here, and there are only 2-4 direct Intracoastal houses per street. The other house isn't even for sale.

The minute a seller makes a counter offer, the buyers initial offer is rendered null and void legally.

October 08, 2017, 03:27 PM

JALLEN

quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
quote:
Originally posted by JALLEN:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Make the offer with a very short acceptance period such as 24 hours. This will force them to take it OR not. Most open houses attract 98% tire kickers that aren't even in the market for a house...... Whatever you do, I'd make the offer right away for asking price if that's what you want to pay, and get it on the table. I don't think they can counter an asking price offer????

Sure they can. The offer is an offer of certain terms. The seller can reject it, accept it, counteroffer (which is a rejection of the offer) or do nothing, letting any time period, or a reasinable time, expire.

The only ramification of rejecting a full price offer is possibly entitling the listing broker to payment of the commission. This in fact rarely happens, because there are nearly always terms, contingencies, details not exactly synonymous with the listing agreement, but can happen.

But it's not really an offer, if the seller is asking $300k with terms xyz, and you're willing to give them $300k and agree to their terms xyz, it's accepting their asking price.....I guess it would vary from state to state.....as you well know realty laws vary greatly from state to state.

Don’t quit your day job, Jimbo.

This is another instance of you coming up with ideas, quite novel and imaginative, that have no basis whatsoever in actual reality.

A ordinary broker listing is not construed as an offer empowering another to accept it. As far as I know, this is universally so in real estate transactions. In 40 years of real estate law and 35 years as a licensed real estate broker, involved in thousands of transactions as a buyer, seller, counsel to a buyer or seller, agent for a buyer or seller, lender, counsel to a title insurer, counsel to litigants and court appointed arbitrator, I have never heard of a successful argument, nor a decision otherwise. That doesn’t completely rule out the possibility that someone, somewhere, didn’t think they were doing this, under the Black Swan Rule, but there is no controlling legal authority for that interpretation.

Indeed, MLS rules treat listings as inviting offers which the owner/seller can accept or reject.

Even if it were so, the listing “offer” would have to specify every detail, price, terms, inspection periods, status of title, which escrow and title holder will handle the deal, etc. which, when the buyer “accepted” each and every detail, formed an enforceable contract.

There is another reason in practicality. A contract is formed upon receipt of an acceptance from any other party. A counteroffer is a rejection of an offer. If an owner received a “counteroffer” (not on precisely the identical terms of the “offer”), and wished to make a new offer to that buyer, he would be exposed to having two different “offers” out concurrently, leading to confusion and dispute when both are accepted simultaneously. This can happen as it is when a buyer makes offers on two different properties, but is much easier to manage, as well as far less common.

The minute a seller makes a counter offer, the buyers initial offer is rendered null and void legally.

I bolded my statement above. So at least you seem to agree on that much.

If a listing were treated as an offer, anyone could accept it, and a contract formed. A listing which is construed as an invitation to make offers, as they are, puts the power of contract formation with the seller, much less chaotic, usually, in the rough and tumble of offers, counteroffers, multiple parties, bidding wars, etc.