Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| As Extraordinary as Everyone Else  |
Certainly not an electrician but we had something similar happen to our beach house several years ago. When the electrician came over he found that some of the wires in the main panel were not secure! He tightened everything down and all was well. I agree, call a licensed electrician pronto!This message has been edited. Last edited by: smlsig, ------------------ Eddie Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina | |||
|
| Savor the limelight |
I meant testing each leg separately to ground. If one leg was out, shouldn’t it measure 0? | |||
|
| Member |
trapper189 Across the hot legs should read 240 vac, if not then you can read thru a closed switch and get 120 vac on each hot leg to ground even though one does not have an input. It can fake you out if you are not careful. | |||
|
| Member |
What he said ,,, You will read 120 volts to gnd on each leg but it's the same leg reading through . | |||
|
| Savor the limelight |
OK, hence the water heater reference. If one leg is bad, the water heater won’t run because there is no return path to the transformer. Because it’s not running, the water will get cold and the switch in the thermostat will close. In testing each leg separately, each will test 120v. One because it is actually hot, and one because I’m completing the circuit from the hot leg, to the water heater, through the closed thermostat and heating element, back to the panel on the dead leg’s circuit, to the dead leg through my multimeter to ground. Thank you. So, if both legs are good, connecting them with the multimeter should read 240v. If one leg is bad, I’m assuming the reading should be 0v because there’s no return path to the transformer. I keep telling myself I'm going to sit down and try to understand electricity some day. | |||
|
Ammoholic |
I hope you've already had the power company come out and confirm (for free) it's not a lost neutral or hot leg. It's pretty easy to test. Turn on a 240 load like a dryer or oven (if electric). Then test 120v circuits on both phases. If the voltage drops on one leg and raises on the other it's a lost neutral. If voltage drops on one but the other stays the same it's a lost leg. If it's the second one it's possible to be in the house at main/meter, if it's the first scenario it's 99.9% power company. The above test should also be done at line and load side of main breaker as well, but I'm weary of telling someone with unknown level of expertise to test mains. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
|
| Member |
Turn the breaker off to the water heater and eliminate that backfeed . Test it again . | |||
|
| Member |
A 240 volt well pump motor or an electric oven could cause the same kind of back feed and fake you out . These are just possible explanations that I've seen before . You could even have a secondary lug burned off on the transformer . My son had this situation on one of his rent houses and I found a burnt wire in his meter can . | |||
|
| Savor the limelight |
I'm trying to help him long distance. This happened about three hours after he dropped my daughter and I off at the airport and I didn't get the message until we landed in Flint. The house was built in 2000 and the addition was added in 2005. Everything is working properly in the addition including the AC and water heater. The addition has its own electrical panel, but the house as a whole has only one meter. I don't know how the addition's panel is connected to the meter. I do know there's a cable that runs through the main house's attic that feeds the addition's panel. If it was a power company problem to the house, then wouldn't the addition have the same problem? The electrician should be there between 8 and 10 tomorrow morning. | |||
|
| Ammoholic |
If the second panel was a sub panel, yes. If it's a separate service, no. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
|
| Member |
Yes , I assume so . I would like to know how the two panels are tied together .I wish I was there . This would be a lot of fun to troubleshoot .  | |||
|
| Savor the limelight |
Can you have two services with only one meter? It would be fun to troubleshoot. I wish I was there cause I would have spent some time trying to figure it out. My dad's 84 and just wants it fixed. When I first talked to him, the conversation started out, "When you were here, did you touch the thermostat?" Because at 55 years old, that's what I do. I go to people's houses and mess up their thermostats. When ask why, he says the AC isn't working and then goes on to tell me that half the lights and outlets don't work either. | |||
|
| Ammoholic |
No, but you can have a 300 or 400 amp service powered from one meter and a bad main breaker for the original panel or loose connection for the original panel at the electrical meter that could possibly cause problems with one, but not the other. So hard to guess with it sight unseen, relayed third hand from an 84 year old man. Please update tomorrow with the actual cause and any additional information you get. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
|
| Savor the limelight |
Will do. | |||
|
| Member |
First you have to define " two services " . You can have a main panel and a sub panel fed by the same meter . That sounds like what you have , and I did this on my son's house . | |||
|
| Savor the limelight |
Just got off the phone with my dad. The electrician isn’t there yet, but my dad was in a good mood and I had him do more testing with the multimeter. First, the power company’s smart meter says 242.9v. With the main breaker off, the two mains coming into the panel measure 243v. With the main breaker back on, all the double pole breakers measure 121-122v. Every other single pole breaker measures 121-122v while the other every other set measures 0v. Bad main breaker, correct? It’s Square D panel. The neutral isn’t separated inside the panel such that every other breaker position is connected to a different neutral bus bar? He asked if the main breaker is something we could fix and I said no because we don’t have a way to shut off the electricity feeding the panel. I told him we wouldn’t mess with it if we couldn’t do that. I think you take the front of the meter off or something, but the power company has an anti-tamper thing you have to cut. My grandfather was a lineman for Detroit Edison for most of his working life. He knew how to do things with electricity and also told us stories of seeing what happened to coworkers that didn’t do things right which instilled a healthy respect for electricity in us. | |||
|
| Member |
Tell your Dad he did a fine job . . | |||
|
Nullus Anxietas |
That's what I looks like to me. I believe that, unless it's an AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter) breaker, the breaker, itself, won't be connected to neutral at all. In newer distribution panels, designed for plug-on neutral breakers, the breakers plug into both the hot and neutral buses. The ensigmatic household's panel (twenty years old?), requires AFCI breakers with a neutral wire, as it has no plug-on neutral bus. In either event: There'll be only one neutral, and any breakers connected to neutral are connected to the same neutral bus. It's what's called "split phase" service. There's a center-tapped step-down transformer out there, somewhere, that brings the 13.8kV (usually?) residential distribution voltage down to 240V. That center tap is the neutral, yielding 120V between it and either side, the two sides being 180° out-of-phase with one another with respect to the neutral. Good call. I'll work with branch circuits all day long, but, I won't touch anything at or upstream of the main disconnect breakers. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
|
"Member" |
Electricity often doesn't. It's not to be trusted. Especially when dealing with neutral problems. When I was doing that work, I ran across things I still can't fully explain, nor could anyone I've ever discussed it with. (We know WHAT was happening, but not sure how.) | |||
|
| Savor the limelight |
Electrician said main breaker was bad, of course electrician doesn’t have one on the truck. Electrician said due to the panel’s age (20 years old), they recommend replacing the whole panel. My dad called four electricians and this was the one that could get out there today, the rest couldn’t get to him until Thursday. I don’t know about replacing the whole panel. Sounds like BS to me. I had the 30 year old panel replaced in my house because it was made by Federal Pacific Electric, the original breakers were junk, and replacement breakers were $50 and up. Thanks for the help and advice. SIGforum FTW! | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2024