quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
So... If I read the article correctly, its now claimed the COVID vaccines prevent all manner of infection.
For how long? Days? Months? Years? The rest of your life?
Say I cut my finger. No need for antibiotics if I have received the COVID shot?

No, that's not what it's saying.

When they reference a vaccine "preventing infection", it's preventing infection by the specific virus that the vaccine is designed to immunize against. (In this case COVID.)

References to "all infections" or "any infections" in the article are in the context of "all subvariants of the COVID virus"... They're not saying that a COVID vaccine is intended to prevent all infections of all diseases of all types from all sources.

If you cut your finger and it gets an infection (e.g. a bacterial infection), you'd still need antibiotics to treat the bacterial infection. A COVID vaccine will have no effect on that.

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
One of the bigger issues with mRNA is the shelf life. Everyone has heard about the COVID vaccines and the temp requirements. Useful vaccine has short usable times once removed from deep freeze.

Ever since the first mention of Pfizer's product requiring super cooling for transport and storage, I've wondered how many people being (hopefully) immunized are getting efficacious vaccine.

Not entirely true. Diphtheria is caused by a bacteria and there is a vaccine for it.
Also, there are vaccines for bacterial pneumonia, bacterial meningitis and a good number of others.

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
Not entirely true. Diphtheria is caused by a bacteria and there is a vaccine for it.

Yup, and the Pertussis, Tetanus, Haemophilus influenzae, pneumococcus, meningococcus, anthrax, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
One of the bigger issues with mRNA is the shelf life. Everyone has heard about the COVID vaccines and the temp requirements. Useful vaccine has short usable times once removed from deep freeze.

Ever since the first mention of Pfizer's product requiring super cooling for transport and storage, I've wondered how many people being (hopefully) immunized are getting efficacious vaccine.

It was a giant concern for me…

I went to a hospital to get mine and questioned their procedures quite rigorously.

Do you really think a Walgreens Pharmacy would be as effective?

Just to keep things in perspective, the seasonal flu vaccine is only about 50% effective at preventing infection. For the mRNA vaxxes to be posting numbers in the 90s is really quite remarkable.

quote:

Just to keep things in perspective, the seasonal flu vaccine is only about 50% effective at preventing infection. For the mRNA vaxxes to be posting numbers in the 90s is really quite remarkable.

That's because you're clearly overlooking the superpower!

I don't hear of many people vaccinated against Polio coming down with the it, so I'd give that one a "superpower" status. Less than 10 per year.

I hear about all sort of people vaccinated against Covid getting it, so I'm not going to put that one in the "superpower" category.

I actually do personally know someone who got Polio after receiving the Polio vaccine. No vaccine is going to be absolutely 100%, but numbers in the 90s is nothing to sneeze at (no pun intended) whether you want to call it a superpower or not.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
I don't hear of many people vaccinated against Polio coming down with the it, so I'd give that one a "superpower" status. Less than 10 per year.

Right. After this many decades, there is very little polio out there to challenge your immunity. Your chances of being non-reactive to the vaccine AND encountering someone with polio who would infect you are exceedingly small.

quote:

but numbers in the 90s is nothing to sneeze at

In fairness, 90% of people never contracted Covid without a vaccine at all. I believe closer to 93% during the first year.

Assume a group of 1000 people. 930 of them would never contract it to begin with. 70 would. The 90% number (even if true) is only going to make a difference with those 70, offering protection to 63 people.

Still not impressed.

Even less impressed when you figure that most of the numbers we have tend to be tainted at best, or downright fabricated at worst. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if it really was 90% effective we wouldn't be hearing about so many people right here on the forum which were vaccinated and later contracted it.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Just to keep things in perspective, the seasonal flu vaccine is only about 50% effective at preventing infection. For the mRNA vaxxes to be posting numbers in the 90s is really quite remarkable.

That's a little bit apples and oranges there.

The seasonal flu vaccine is based on CDC's best guess as to which of the zillion strains will be prevalent the next year. Not so w/ COVID-19. At least not yet.

-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
In fairness, 90% of people never contracted Covid without a vaccine at all. I believe closer to 93% during the first year.

Assume a group of 1000 people. 930 of them would never contract it to begin with. 70 would. The 90% number (even if true) is only going to make a difference with those 70, offering protection to 63 people.

That's correct, and also the way efficacy is calculated for all vaccines.

quote:

That's a little bit apples and oranges there.

The seasonal flu vaccine is based on CDC's best guess as to which of the zillion strains will be prevalent the next year. Not so w/ COVID-19. At least not yet.

OK, point taken but I think it's interesting that there's a lot of talk about developing mRNA vaccines against the flu (well, there's been talk for a while, but now even more so).

The point I was trying to make is that people seem to be thinking in black and white terms over whether the vaccines are effective. It's really a matter of percent, and figures in the mid-90s is way more effective than non-effective.

"Israel has the highest vaccination rate in the world, using the Pfizer-BioNTech exclusively.
Yet, the Delta variant surges in Israel.

Also...
California Counties See COVID Cases Rising In Most Heavily Vaccinated Counties"


Israel is about the most densely populated place on earth and that probably has a lot to do with it. They still have a little over 40% un-vaccinated so plenty of potential victims left.
I suspect the California counties may be densely populated areas too.

It is the Delta variant that's thrown a monkey wrench in the whole works. It just means we have to fine-tune to address the new threat.

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:

That's a little bit apples and oranges there.

The seasonal flu vaccine is based on CDC's best guess as to which of the zillion strains will be prevalent the next year. Not so w/ COVID-19. At least not yet.

Also, isn't the number only about 60% even when the CDC guesses right? Correct me if wrong.

Israel is first nation to give Pfizer thirdsies because efficacy drops to 84% six months after second.


https://www.foxnews.com/health...dults-over-60-report


"Efficacy peaked at 96.2% during the interval from 7 days to <2 months post-dose 2, and declined
gradually to 83.7% from 4 months post-dose 2 to the data cut-off, an average decline of ~6%
every 2 months. Ongoing follow-up is needed to understand persistence of the vaccine effect
over time, the need for booster dosing, and timing of such a dose"

https://www.medrxiv.org/conten....21261159v1.full.pdf <------- the whole article is pretty interesting
to read in detail.
There's an awful lot of 'percentages' in play.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
It is the Delta variant that's thrown a monkey wrench in the whole works. It just means we have to fine-tune to address the new threat.

If you actually think all this madness ends after some "fine-tuning", you can't be reasoned with.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
If you actually think all this madness ends after some "fine-tuning", you can't be reasoned with.

OP specifically asked to keep the dang politics out of this thread. Almost 800 pages in the other thread not enough for you?

It's OK for you to disagree with me, and I am trying to see the other side. Is there really a need to make it personal?