This is part of the reality of marijuana legalization. It's been seen time and again in every state that has implemented it, starting with Colorado back in the day, yet it continually gets swept under the rug when yet another state puts it on their ballot and the same old pro-legalization talking points get trotted out. The truth is, rather than cutting down on illegal grows/sales, legalization instead feeds it. Demand skyrockets due to the legalization, and organized crime groups move in to capitalize on that increased demand with illegally grown or smuggled weed. People still buy the illegal weed, because of the extra hoops and higher costs required to obtain the taxed and restricted legal weed, and once the marijuana is sold there's no way for law enforcement to tell whether the buyer is possessing illegal or legal weed. Thus of the additional billions of dollars of weed being sold in the state due to the higher demand, much of this money ends up being from illegal weed sales being funneled back to organized crime groups rather than into the state's coffers as the legalization proponents claim it would. Then you get to deal with all the associated crimes and other problems that go along with massively increased organized crime activity too.

I guess one can hope that the "they're hurting the environment" angle, as discussed in the article, will be the right approach to light a fire under the left coast Oregonians...

From https://apnews.com/article/pol...a453b1d06f6b7a290310

quote:

SALEM, Ore. (AP) — In 2014, Oregon voters approved a ballot measure legalizing recreational marijuana after being told it would eliminate problems caused by “uncontrolled manufacture” of the drug. Illegal production of marijuana has instead exploded.

Oregon lawmakers, who have heard complaints from police, legal growers and others, are now looking at toughening laws against the outlaw growers. Oregon, one of the first states to legalize recreational marijuana, can be an object lesson for other states, including Maryland and Missouri, where voters legalized weed on Nov. 8. That raised the number of states that have approved marijuana’s recreational use to 21.

So far this year, police have seized over 105 tons (95 metric tons) of illegally grown marijuana in Oregon, according to the Oregon-Idaho High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area task force. That’s up from at least 9 tons (8 metric tons) in 2019.

The indoor and outdoor grows use massive amounts of water in drought-stricken areas, contaminate the environment and employ migrant laborers who live in squalid conditions.

A draft bill for Oregon’s 2023 legislative session that begins Jan. 17 would double the maximum prison sentence and fine — to 10 years in prison and $250,000 — for unlawful manufacture involving more than 100 plants and possession in excess of 32 times the legal limits. Personal possession limits in Oregon are 2 ounces (57 grams) of marijuana in a public place and 8 ounces (227 grams) in a home.

The measure also holds people accountable for environmental damage and prohibits use of water at locations not licensed for growing marijuana. Addressing immigrant labor, the draft bill makes it a crime for managers of an illegal grow site to confiscate a passport or immigration document, to threaten to report a person to a government agency for arrest or deportation, or withhold wages without lawful justification.

Some parts of Oregon have seen record seizures as police raid plantation after plantation. Police say foreign criminal gangs have become involved, from Mexico, Russia, China and other countries.

A single raid in October yielded 76,930 pounds (35,000 kilograms) of marijuana in Yamhill County, southwest of Portland, the largest pot bust on record in a county more renowned for its pinot noir wine.

“Investigators found the entire property had been converted to facilitate the growth, storage, processing, and packaging of marijuana to be shipped or transported out of the area,” the sheriff’s office said.

The street retail value of the marijuana in Oregon would be $76 million while on the East Coast it would be worth $269 million, the sheriff’s office said.

Receipts at the property in rural Newberg, Oregon, showed wire transfers involving large amounts of money going from Oregon to the state of Michoacán in Mexico.

On Oct. 25, Oregon State Police, including SWAT officers, raided a property in southern Oregon’s Jackson County that had pot growing in greenhouses. They officers destroyed about 1,000 pounds (450 kilos) of illegal, processed marijuana and found the carcass of a black bear, along with firearms and three stolen vehicles.

The amount of illegal marijuana that law enforcement officers manage to intercept each year in Oregon is believed to be dwarfed by the uncounted tons that are smuggled out of state and sold for high profits.

The 2014 Oregon voters’ pamphlet said legalization of recreational marijuana would “eliminate the problems caused by the prohibition and uncontrolled manufacture, delivery, and possession of marijuana within this state.”

Anthony Johnson, who was the chief petitioner for Ballot Measure 91, acknowledged that legalization — and the creation of a regulated industry from farm to customer — has not stemmed the illegal grows.

With recreational marijuana still being illegal federally as well as in many other states, Johnson said the problem won’t go away because of the high profit margin from selling on the black market in those states.

“I think that this is going to remain a problem until the federal government legalizes across the nation,” Johnson said in an interview on Tuesday.

He said, though, that authorities should act against the illegal growers in Oregon.

“Certainly, when unregulated grows are stealing water or using chemicals that shouldn’t be polluting our land, then it’s expected that the state and/or federal government is going to move in to enforce state law.”

Shit is terrible.
Rural Colorado is awash in cartel activity. Southern areas are about as wild west as Juarez. I have family that lives near a lot of it and it's sketchy A.F. when I'm down visiting them. Open carry and slung rifles are the norm.

Mexican cartels run the drug business in USA now. Until we’re ready to start playing Cowboys and Indians again, this shit just gonna get worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
Shit is terrible.
Rural Colorado is awash in cartel activity. Southern areas are about as wild west as Juarez. I have family that lives near a lot of it and it's sketchy A.F. when I'm down visiting them. Open carry and slung rifles are the norm.

Yeah, I attended an investigators' conference in Colorado a year or two after their initial legalization, and the horror stories from the Colorado LEOs about the resulting massive uptick in organized crime (and all its ripple effects) was eye-opening. Some of them even admitted that they had bought into the hope that marijuana legalization just might make law enforcement easier, not harder, which turned out to be a pipe dream.

Colorado was the first, and got to be the guinea pigs, so it's a more forgivable. They get to use the "we didn't know" excuse. But when the same pattern gets repeated in each new state, yet supporters willfully ignore the evidence and continue to claim stuff like "legalization will lower crime" or "legalization will curb illegal grows and smuggling", it's inexcusable.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Mexican cartels run the drug business in USA now.

It's not just the Mexican/Latina American groups. A large portion of this post-legalization organized crime activity is tied to Eastern Europe and Asia. (Russia, China, Albania, Serbia, Thailand, etc.) The cartels may have had a near-monopoly, but a number of other groups managed to stake their own territory within these states in the post-legalization gold rush.

The article Rogue posted made reference to the tremendous damage occurring on public lands with the illegal marijuana grows. I believe this video was sent around the Forest Service offices in the 90s; the problem has only got worse. I actually discovered a small mj plantation in the 90s on the Kaibab in N Arizona. As Rogu’s post explains, state after state continues to approve recreational marijuana without a thought given to the very real consequences.

^^ Yep, it's all about the money.

quote:

state after state continues to approve recreational marijuana without a thought given to the very real consequences.

We just "legalized" it here in MO, except that's not exactly what happened.
We've created a government sponsored cartel.
It's still illegal to cultivate or sell unless you receive one of the few licenses awarded by the State.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
We just "legalized" it here in MO, except that's not exactly what happened.
We've created a government sponsored cartel.
It's still illegal to cultivate or sell unless you receive one of the few licenses awarded by the State.

Which won't be able to fill the demand bubble, so criminal groups will step in with more illegal weed to fill the vacuum, and the greatly increased number of users will happily buy the cheaper and more readily available illegal weed.

Same song and verse as every other state with legalized marijuana.

On top of this stupidity they want to limit law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves so now more innocent people get intimidated and victimized. It is mind boggling. But it is all what those in charge want to happen.
A once great place to live and raise a family turned into a shithole.

It's been legal here in Alaska for quite a while. Fortunately distance spares us a lot of the problems in the lower 48. There's still a lot of cries from the industry that regulations raise their costs too much to be a worthwhile investment.

But the funny one right now is listening to the Anchorage city council argue about the need to have a dispensary in Eagle River. I live in Eagle River and while physically separated from Anchorage, we're included within their municipality. With the zoning regulations of minimum distances between a dispensary and a school, it is not possible to locate a dispensary within Eagle River.

Now the city council is looking to make an exception to allow a dispensary in Eagle River in the name of public safety. The council members pushing it aren't even the members that represent Eagle River. Yes, legal weed is now a public safety issue. It's being billed as, "the last bastion of the black market in the municipality." Uh huh, right...

https://www.alaskasnewssource....op-may-be-open-soon/

gle River could see first cannabis shop open


By Rebecca Palsha
Published: Nov. 17, 2022 at 5:38 PM AKST
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (KTUU) - When the rules for cannabis shops were being crafted after legalization in Alaska Eagle River lawmakers took a strict approach, making it almost impossible to have a retail cannabis shop in the area.

“This is a little bit more conservative part of town,” former assembly person Debbie Ossiander from Eagle River said. “And there was not a lot of joy about pot shops, and so they specifically recommended stricter zoning and that passed the assembly, and that’s the way the law is now.”

But recently, the idea of having a cannabis shop located at 12111 Horseshoe Drive has been circulating at community council meetings.

In 2016, Anchorage Assembly members Bill Starr and Amy Demboski — who is now the municipal manager under Mayor Dave Bronsons’ administration — helped push through the more stringent regulations for cannabis in Eagle River, including a 1,000-foot setback from parks and residential areas, which is twice what’s required in the municipality.


Ossiander said it would be “virtually impossible” to have a store in downtown Eagle River, although there is a slim possibility for a store in Peters Creek.

“Opening a retail cannabis store in Eagle River will provide local residents with a legal, tested, and regulated product without having to travel to Anchorage or the Valley. It will also create well-paying jobs, increased tax revenue, and reduce the black market trade in unregulated, untested, and untaxed marijuana,” reads a website created for Alice’s, which is the name of the newly proposed retail cannabis dispensary in Eagle River.

But because of those tougher zoning laws, special permission would be needed from the Anchorage Assembly.

Cannabis tax revenue in the state has increased steadily since legalization, which also increases shared revenue disbursed to local governments.


But the Marijuana Local Option allows local governments to stop the sale or important of marijuana.

“A local government may prohibit the sale or importation for sale of marijuana and any marijuana product and the operation of any marijuana establishment through the enactment of an ordinance or by a voter initiative. The local option laws are found in Title 17.38 of the Alaska Statutes and Title 3 of the Alaska Administrative Code,” reads the state statues under the Alcohol and Marijuana Control office.

“The way the code is currently written, there are no properties in the Chugiak-Eagle River area (except for the Izaak Walton shooting range) that meet the requirements for retail cannabis. Our goal is to amend the code so that retail cannabis is an allowable use for commercially zoned, CE-B3 properties,” reads the website.

Alaska’s News Source investigative unit found out most Anchorage Assembly members say they haven’t heard enough about Alice’s to offer a comment. But Eagle River assembly member Jamie Allard wrote in an email that, “The Community of CER overwhelming voted no to legalize Pot Shops. At this point I will continue to represent the majority of not supporting Pot Shops in CER. No, I would not support such action.”


Assembly co-chair Chris Constant says he feels like a legalized shop would provide safer options over the illegal market.

“Providing a regulated marketplace will improve public safety by ensuring both that products are not sold to minors, and they are properly tested to ensure it is safe for human consumption and to know potency of the product. The final benefit to the municipality at large is the increase of tax revenue to support important local government services offsetting property taxes,” Constant said in an email.

Alaska’s News Source asked Anchorage Police how many people had been cited for having illegal cannabis in Eagle River versus Anchorage.

“I do not have quick access to those numbers. You would need to fill out a Records Request for that data,” Renee Oistad wrote in an email on Oct 31.


A response to the records request still hasn’t been compiled.

“All the reports that I hear from folks on the ground out in Eagle River is that that’s the last bastion of the black market in the municipality,” Constant said. “That since legalization in 2015, we have effectively choked off the illegal marketplace in the municipality— except in one place, Eagle River.”

Questions to the Anchorage School District asking for comparative numbers of students in Eagle River found with cannabis versus students in Anchorage also have not been returned.

The proposed shop is just off North Eagle River Loop road. It’s in a short, squat brown building that currently houses flooring supplies.


It’s also near Boondock Sporting Goods and the newly built neighborhood of Dove Tree Townhomes and a Carl’s Jr. restaurant.

“I think they should keep that stuff in Anchorage,” Vince Scanla, a nearby resident said as he herded his German Shepherd back into his townhome.

“People are people,” Sara Kraiter, who also lives nearby, said. “It’s no different than people who drink alcohol.”

Still, Ossiander said the shop would be too close to the homes to be allowed.


“There’s homes just right there,” Ossiander said. “A school for disabled kids — Behavior Matters is just two doors down — and there’s a church that periodically meets up there too. So the distances don’t match and the zoning district doesn’t match, they continue to try though.”

Jena Weltzin, an attorney who represents Alice’s, says allowing this one shop wouldn’t make it legal for multiple stores to open in Eagle River.

“We need to do some groundwork and get a text amendment to title 21 to allow for Marijuana Shops in the B3 zone in the Eagle River area,” Weltzin said in an email.

“Then, if that is successful, we would need to get several variances approved through the assembly to allow for Alice’s to receive a special land use permit. So, it’s a steady slow process, we are working on securing community support and getting to know what the community’s concerns are. This is not something to be rushed and there are many steps at the municipal level that have to be completed before this project can be considered for Assembly approval.”


Weltzin disputes the idea that most people in Eagle River don’t want a cannabis shop.

“We’ve been discovering through this community engagement there’s a lot of people that don’t want to drive all the way to Anchorage to get legal, tested safe cannabis products,” Weltzin said. “There’s a lot of people that would like to have access in their own community. A lot more than we anticipated.”

Rogue, you hit the nail on the head, but it wasn't the nail you wanted to hit.

quote:

People still buy the illegal weed, because of the extra hoops and higher costs required to obtain the taxed and restricted legal weed

The states have to realize they're in competition with the black market, and need to structure their legalization to deal with that. Legal weed tends to be a luxury product at high cost. They need to make it easier and cheaper to make and sell legally if they want to squeeze out the black market.

quote:

The states have to realize they're in competition with the black market, and need to structure their legalization to deal with that. Legal weed tends to be a luxury product at high cost. They need to make it easier and cheaper to make and sell legally if they want to squeeze out the black market.

Yes, like alcohol. It's taxed heavily, but available almost anywhere.
But that's not going to happen. The State has created a monopoly partnership with a few selected businesses and will protect it.

Oregon: "Hold my beer, Let's "legalize everything" with measure 110 ."

Meth, Heroin, Cocaine, LSD. It's all been decriminalized in Oregon thanks to voter stupidity.

Measure 110 was a promise to help the user but still go after the dealers. They were going to use resources (money) for "treatment" rather than "jail." Only problem is the treatment part of it really hasn't worked, for whatever reason. Maybe it hasn't started yet, not sure.

As a result, urban places like Portland and Eugene have become open air drug dens with drugs and druggies all over the place. You can't take your kids to the parks any more, parks are not for kids, they are for junkies who have noplace else to go.

It's absurd. Oh, wait the same groups who pushed and voted for measure 110 also bought into the measure 114 "reduce gun violence" vote which is another fraud.

more on 110's drug legalization here: https://www.koin.com/news/a-co...E2%80%9D%20he%20said.

quote:

PORTLAND, Ore. (KOIN) — Two years after the state of Oregon decriminalized hard drugs, some people are calling the decision a mistake. Voters approved Measure 110 in 2020, which decriminalized small amounts of hard drugs and funded addiction and mental health programs. But the rollout of the funding for those programs was slow. “We know there was a lot of disappointment about the early pace of our work and I share in that disappointment,” said Sabrina Garcia, a member of the Measure 110 Oversight and Accountability Council.

They sell the idea to reluctant voters by claiming there will be a windfall of tax revenue.
Then they add so much tax and regulatory hoops that it's still much easier to make your own for many people.
Distilling alcohol into something most people want to drink is much harder for individuals and easy to do on an industrial scale for businesses so it works OK there.
Some seeds and a planter with potting soil does the job for homegrown marijuana and making it mostly legal takes much of the risk away from criminals competing against the states.

The genie is out of the bottle and isn’t going back in.

I don't see where the voters are so reluctant. It's more the politicritters who don't want it. That's why it usually get passed by ballot initiative. Then the political layer gets ahold of it and implements it in a way that has minimal impact. See Colorado.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
They sell the idea to reluctant voters by claiming there will be a windfall of tax revenue.
Then they add so much tax and regulatory hoops that it's still much easier to make your own for many people.
Distilling alcohol into something most people want to drink is much harder for individuals and easy to do on an industrial scale for businesses so it works OK there.
Some seeds and a planter with potting soil does the job for homegrown marijuana and making it mostly legal takes much of the risk away from criminals competing against the states.

I have a buddy that lives in southern Oregon and he told me that legal weed accounts for less than half the sales in the state, there is so much surplus in pot. In 2019, he was selling his truck and had 3 offers, all wanting to trade pounds of weed and some cash. He turned them down, what was he going to do with weed? He also told me a few years ago that large heavy gun safes were impossible to find because growers were buying them to store cash.

Always endorsed the idea of legalization for freedom reasons but I knew the implementation would just create and increase problems with crime.

Every time I heard the "legalize it and tax it" years ago I knew it was literal horseshit.

No one even cared to think this through.

Even Stevie Wonder could have seen that coming.

Legalization was never going to eliminate, or even reduce, crime. It just shifted it.