what if everyone in the U.S. paid 2 1/2 times the current tax rate ,
then could we do more to
combat crime, criminals and Mexico effect ?

what if we just deport drug users to mexico as they are arrested and take away the passport and citizenship. Cost less, put unemployed non drug users in their jobs and move them closer to the source....

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
If the citizens won’t fight/they don’t see a point in calling police, then the republic is done.

Yep. If it gets to the point that the cartels are sending technicals across the border with death squads, it isn't just going to be the police dealing with it.

It’ll be the last thing they ever did, which is why they won’t try it with Trump in charge

Pancho vs. Black Jack, take 2

If I recall it already has happened. There are several thousand square acres I'll Federal land on the border that is off-limits to US citizens due to cartel activity and human smuggling.

What if everyone in the U.S paid income taxes

quote:

Originally posted by sigalert:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Ask yourself this. Are the the corner liquor stores shooting it out over turf? Are the big liquor companies gunning hordes of people in third world countries to control smuggling routes. Are the neighborhood winos robbing people to buy their booze? Once upon a time this all happened, during Prohibition.

The violence during Prohibition was from the gangs themselves. Not the end user of the alcohol. I doubt even the most hardened alcoholic will kill someone for bottle of boooze. If they were that far gone, the detox would probably kill him.

Illicit drugs seem to have a different effect on the user. They create an addiction strong enough that committing crime to maintain a habit is an easy bridge to cross.

It's just an observation. I have never used an illegal drug before. So I can't speak from experience.

Yep.

BBMW- it's because of this:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
If we’re talking about weed, I tend to wager that part of the problem has been the “legalize and tax the shit out of it” mindset that we’ve been going with hasn’t helped. Dunno about CA, but in WA, the legal stuff is taxed 25% three separate times before it hits a store shelf, then there’s 10% sales tax on top. Tax the shit out of it, and a black market can still thrive.

Based on what I’ve been reading and hearing, meth is the bigger problem as far as what’s coming up from Mexico.

Let's talk about a "Dime bag". That's $10 worth of XXX-fil in the blank-XXX (Weed, cocaine, heroin, extasy...)
That bag of drugs, after Uncle Sam does his thing is now $13, $15 dollars.
But Homie on the corner is still selling that bag for $10.

Where are you going to go to buy your dope?



Oh, but now because it's now all legal, millions of Americans are just going to follow the law? They're still going to get that shit from Homie on the corner. And until Uncle Sam figures out how to package, market, distribute and sell it at a lower price point, Homie on the corner is going to win. Capitalism at its finest.

Granted, the "Sidewalk Pharmaceutical Salesman" is under a lot less federal regulations, and the USDA isn't breaking his balls, but Homie ain't stupid. Homie knows that if he sells a shitty product, junkies are gonna talk, and not buy from you. They'll go down the block to Pookie. So, it's in Homie's best interest to sell a quality product on the streets.


The violence HERE is going to come from territorial disputes, shorting money from a deal, and the general "disrespecting" a rival (or even fellow) gang member.


The violence along the border is fueled by the drug routes INTO the USA. In the 60's and 70's, it was predominantly Marijuana. No one really thought it was "that bad" of a drug, so a lot more things were accepted. Then Cocaine came along in a BIG WAY. And the South American distributors used the same people and same routes as Marijuana. But the price now increased... A lot. It's a multi-BILLION dollar business, tax free. Well, in the way "we" understand taxes. Their tax is in the form of paying off people. Now, add on the industrial Meth that the Mexican cartels are making, and the profits just go up even more!

^^^
From what I've seen, this is completely wrong. The MJ dispensaries are packed with regular folks, all the time. I had a friend from childhood come out to see me 2 years ago. He asked that I take him to a dispensary so he could buy a small amount of weed. The line was out the door, with a 30 minute wait. This was on a Wednesday afternoon!

People that don't live in the city don't know "Homie". They want a safe, secure place to buy a couple of joints. It was filled with regular looking folks. They like to smoke a joint on the weekends.

Neither have I, but having to come up with $200-300 or more to float an addiction will drive people to do a lot of things they otherwise wouldn't. If it were $20-30 a day, I have to wonder if that would change the situation. Also, while they'd sell heroin, I'd also have the pharmacies sell Methadone and Suboxone, which satisfy the physical addiction with being intoxicating. The addicts could be functional with those.

Overall, I look at the drug problem as two separate problems occuring simultaneously. There the problems caused by and to the addicts themselves (overdosing and other medical issues, social disfunction, crime to support the addiction, etc.), and there's the problems caused by the illicit drug business (violence, inducing corruption on a global scale, etc.). We can't eliminate the former, but it could likely be managed. We could easily solve the latter, by legalizing and regulating the business (as happened with alcohol after prohibition.)

quote:

Originally posted by sigalert:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Ask yourself this. Are the the corner liquor stores shooting it out over turf? Are the big liquor companies gunning hordes of people in third world countries to control smuggling routes. Are the neighborhood winos robbing people to buy their booze? Once upon a time this all happened, during Prohibition.

The violence during Prohibition was from the gangs themselves. Not the end user of the alcohol. I doubt even the most hardened alcoholic will kill someone for bottle of boooze. If they were that far gone, the detox would probably kill him.

Illicit drugs seem to have a different effect on the user. They create an addiction strong enough that committing crime to maintain a habit is an easy bridge to cross.

It's just an observation. I have never used an illegal drug before. So I can't speak from experience.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
^^^
From what I've seen, this is completely wrong. The MJ dispensaries are packed with regular folks, all the time. I had a friend from childhood come out to see me 2 years ago. He asked that I take him to a dispensary so he could buy a small amount of weed. The line was out the door, with a 30 minute wait. This was on a Wednesday afternoon!

People that don't live in the city don't know "Homie". They want a safe, secure place to buy a couple of joints. It was filled with regular looking folks. They like to smoke a joint on the weekends.

And you live in a dream world pal... CPD Sig hit it right in the head.

Hmm, 1967Goat cites what he's seen in the real world, all 357fuzz can muster is a cheap crack, but somehow 1967Goat is the one who lives in a dream world.

Explain to me how that works again?

quote:

But Ms. Packer also said the city was mindful that criminal enforcement in the past had disproportionately targeted people of color.

Why has this woman decided to play the race card? What has race have to do with enforcing the law?

And, again, Kalifornistan's "solution" turns out to be a non-starter!

quote:

Originally posted by roberth:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Shugart:
^ ^ ^ ^ Outstanding post.

Yes it is.

Agreed!

The only way I see a solution is to make the penalty so severe for violating the law that the majority of the pushers, dealers will decide that the penalty if they are caught is too high.

And I don't mean increasing the penalty from probation to some form of community service, either. Nor spending some time in the local fun farm.

I have my own idea of what that penalty should be, but doubt that many would agree.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
If the citizens won’t fight/they don’t see a point in calling police, then the republic is done.

Yep. If it gets to the point that the cartels are sending technicals across the border with death squads, it isn't just going to be the police dealing with it.

It’ll be the last thing they ever did, which is why they won’t try it with Trump in charge

It’s already happening here, don’t think they are afraid to execute people here. No, it’s not as blatant as in Mexico but it does happen already. You’re really optimistic if you really think Trump is scaring them. They do it for money and as long as they are getting paid it will continue.

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
...make the penalty so severe for violating the law that the majority of the pushers, dealers will decide that the penalty if they are caught is too high.

I understand the logic, but recent history suggests that two things would happen if the penalties became that severe - judges would arbitrarily soften penalties (probably because they're somehow "blatantly racist" or at least "culturally inappropriate"), and the more severe penalties (whether exacted or not) would become an argument for legalization.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
...make the penalty so severe for violating the law that the majority of the pushers, dealers will decide that the penalty if they are caught is too high.

I understand the logic, but recent history suggests that two things would happen if the penalties became that severe - judges would arbitrarily soften penalties (probably because they're somehow "blatantly racist" or at least "culturally inappropriate"), and the more severe penalties (whether exacted or not) would become an argument for legalization.

And let’s also consider that color notwithstanding, the jails are already so filled with occupants that those committing serious crimes are being released to allow jails to accommodate the most violent of felons. The answer is wholesale eradication of the cartels. Hunt them and their operations with extreme prejudice.

Its ironic for me, since as a participant in the Cold War I am quite familiar with the number of people who died trying to cross the Berlin Wall. And now we need a wall to keep out those who threaten us.
I think the time has come to use the same tactics the Israelis use to combat Hezbollah.
Track the cartel leaders and drone strike them.
If we have solid intel, use our SpecOps folks to take these people out. And I dont mean arrest them.
Make this personal. Take this fight to those operate and control these cartels. They deal in death. So should we. Will there be innocents harmed? Probably. Will the Mexican government bitch about this? No doubt they will.
Tough shit.
Earlier this week, in my former hometown of Dayton OH, A 30 year veteran cop was shot in the face twice with an FN 5.7 pistol and killed while conducting a dope raid.
Recovered in the raid was Mexican cartel sourced Fentanyl.
How many Americans have died in the last few years from Mexican Cartel dope? More that we lost in the 9-11 attacks and we went to war to to remedy that.
Enough is enough.
We have spent many years, untold billions of dollars and many American lives in the Middle East but let this shit go on right on our doorstep. Amazing. Time to end it.
I am not so naive that we can dry up every bit of illegal drugs that cross our border. But we need to make it clear to those who engage in this, do so at the risk of their lives.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
how long until all that power bleeds over to the AZ , TX and California borders ?

can any amount of police force in the U.S.
match .30 caliber or .50 cal mounted guns in pick up beds?

I do know Texas started in late 2011 with at least six of these gunboats on the Rio Grande:





https://www.policemag.com/3740...d-for-cartel-threats

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Hmm, 1967Goat cites what he's seen in the real world, all 357fuzz can muster is a cheap crack, but somehow 1967Goat is the one who lives in a dream world.

Explain to me how that works again?

They are actually both correct.

A lot of legit people; upper and middle class folks are buying weed from a legitimate, legal dispensary. Because they have access to it and they don't want to "get dirty" by buying it from Homie on the corner. But there's still people going into "the hood" to buy Cannabis from Homie. Trust and believe that! I see it all the time- the majority of my district is "The Hood".

Hey, I just want a little bit, and I don't feel like traveling all the way down there...


There's also the "boutique" shops. - a dealer working out of his home/ business that has a high end product, and only deals with a select number (mostly known to them) clients. He's unregulated, not licensed, therefore not taxed. They strive to stay under the radar. He's going to have problems too. If the police find out, he gets raided for no license and not paying taxes. If Homie finds out, he gets robbed.

But Homie on the corner still exists.
He's still in Denver, Seattle and other places where it's legal, and borderline legal.

I have friends that may or may not be involved in the "Boutique" end of things. I sat down and had some serious discussions with them- I was seriously interested in short to mid term investment into medical marijuana. And after long conversations with them, talking about the regulations, taxes, licenses... They all said they are still going to do what they do and how they do it, and they ain't going anywhere. One of these people has close family in Colorado, and the same thing there. However, in Colorado, they're actually making MORE money now, than before. Product and prices haven't changed on their end, but now the customer base is a lot larger.