Two things that go on with a person on Hard drugs: Chasing that first time high or buzz until they become addicted.
Then they are faced with withdrawal if they don't get the dose right and increasing the dose looking for that first time high. A viscous circle that in time leads to death from overdose or self-neglect.
Check out or read up on Chinese opium dens. They went in for a high in the beginning, later on they never leave, standing up anyway.

Methadone at clinics has been offered. At least they are still around in Indiana. I think they don't do anything to cure addiction but help the addict to maintain just above a level of the pain of withdrawal. I consider those to be a failure.

Free drugs; You have to be shitting me, half of the population would be addicted and sitting on their ass like all of them you see now in those homeless camps, laying on the sidewalks, etc., etc. Like was seen during the opium dens in the past.

You want to solve the problem? The first step is getting the government out of the addiction cycle. If addicts break the law of a particular state, then they must be incarcerated. No alternate sentences.

The states have long attempted to be in the state court ordered rehab business. And my state has an almost 8 out of 10 failure rate. And we have thrown billions of dollars at at since 1997 despite it not working. I have often laughed at hearing “we can’t arrest our way out of this”. The last 5 years has shown us we can’t not arrest our way out of this either.

The OP says he’s “studied” this since 1961, but it’s pretty evident he doesn’t actually know any addicts. Addicts will still steal, prostitute and commit robberies after putting the OPs plan into motion. Why? The unregulated dope will still be stronger and a better high. The OP fails to understand that an addict has no skin in the game to steal and trade it for dope. No ID necessary. No having to go to a dispensary. The dope comes to them and the high is better because it’s not regulated. Addicts will steal murder each other for free dope. See above. The ODs will double or triple in the first year. Addicts don’t read and follow dosage recommendations.

My suggestion is get to know a few actual addicts before you go throwing “solutions” around to the actual problem.

Unlimited, free, pure fentanyl might solve the drug issue, in a brutal fashion.

Half of the urban youth, at least in Miami, are already addicts, and have been since they were 12-14.

Barring a medical breakthrough, they will be burdens on society their entire lives. There’s no one home.

Maybe it’s where the old “domestic” class came from? They might be able to be taught to be boot blacks, maybe maids, as long as no one requires very much of them.

quote:

My only opinion to the above concerns crime: not having to steal to support an expensive drug habit reduces the necessity for crime.

I disagree with your statement. Certainly, there are persons addicted to drugs that work daily to support their habit and to have food in the refrigerator and a roof over their heads.

But their are others that will have no desire to work. They’ll take the free government supplied narcotics and steal to get money for food and a place to live. The difference is that maybe they will steal a little bit less to live on.

jijones:

quote:

My suggestion is get to know a few actual addicts before you go throwing “solutions” around to the actual problem.

OP - over the years in the private sector in Florida and California my companies provided drug screenings to rehabilitation facilities. I met with both staff and clients. The facilities were private, not government funded, and the clients I met were universally attempting to get away from their addiction.

I am not suggesting that the people I met were your average ‘on the street, living in poverty’ since they could afford inpatient treatment. I cannot speak to that category of addiction.

Until an addict makes the decision they need help nothing else is going to change their mindset.
From what you wrote here, you were involved with the ones that made the decision to clean up. Sure, they probably relapsed but the drive to succeed was still there.

As others have said, the government supplied narcotic will be a maintenance level, not enough to get them high. They’ll probably sell their allocated dose(s) to a new non user and use that money for the illegal stuff that will get them that feeling of euphoria the first time they used. Kind of like a person in a methadone clinic would sell their dose to someone and take that money and turn it into a fix.

Nope.

Not going to work. As an ER nurse I see a lot of patients that suffer from drug addiction. A few do successfully clean up, others are right back at it as soon as they get out of whatever detox program they can get into.

My controversial proposal, at lease for Alaska. Adak Island is out in the Aleutians, an old WWII era base that the Nave used as a listening post through the Cold War before abandoning it. It literally is an abandoned town. Three strikes for drug addiction and you get a one way ticket to Adak. Once there, let Lord of the Flies takes over. Whatever existence and society they carve out for themselves great. At least their society will no longer interfere with ours.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
You want to solve the problem? The first step is getting the government out of the addiction cycle. If addicts break the law of a particular state, then they must be incarcerated. No alternate sentences.

The states have long attempted to be in the state court ordered rehab business. And my state has an almost 8 out of 10 failure rate. And we have thrown billions of dollars at at since 1997 despite it not working. I have often laughed at hearing “we can’t arrest our way out of this”. The last 5 years has shown us we can’t not arrest our way out of this either.

The OP says he’s “studied” this since 1961, but it’s pretty evident he doesn’t actually know any addicts. Addicts will still steal, prostitute and commit robberies after putting the OPs plan into motion. Why? The unregulated dope will still be stronger and a better high. The OP fails to understand that an addict has no skin in the game to steal and trade it for dope. No ID necessary. No having to go to a dispensary. The dope comes to them and the high is better because it’s not regulated. Addicts will steal murder each other for free dope. See above. The ODs will double or triple in the first year. Addicts don’t read and follow dosage recommendations.

My suggestion is get to know a few actual addicts before you go throwing “solutions” around to the actual problem.

Bingo. The entire premise of the thread is based on these people acting like logical people. They are not and will not.

Maybe as 2000Z-71 points out there is a spectrum and there are some people out there who may not be beyond hope. My guess is that people working in residential treatment programs are more likely to see those folks. I’d guess that officers on the street are probably more likely to see at least a greater cross section of folks, if not more folks at the other end of the spectrum.

Looking at how other government programs have worked out, it is hard to imagine that a program as described in the OP could possibly fail to create more addicts, ruin more lives, and incinerate more money that we don’t have.

The solution is a cultural one. Cradle to grave government handouts that do nothing but promote sloth, need to end. We also need to bring back jobs in this country. I read somewhere recently that since the 90s, some 80,000 factories have been closed in this country (mostly due to globalism, NAFTA, and factories going overseas). Bring back the manufacturing, bring back the jobs, and give these people something to do and something to work for, and we'll see the numbers decrease rapidly. Those things, along with an increased focus on church attendance and morality, will help immensely.

We will never eliminate the problem, but we can most certainly get it back to a manageable level. We just need the will to do it.

The island thing would work as well, but I would include anyone sentenced to greater than 20 years in prison. We can no longer afford to care for these people for the rest of their lives while they rot in prison. Ship them all to an island and let them fend for themselves.

quote:

The solution is a cultural one. Cradle to grave government handouts that do nothing but promote sloth, need to end. We also need to bring back jobs in this country...

Yes, sir. It's not complicated but it's not easy either. The freedoms we enjoy must be coupled with personal responsibility. If not, the consequences must be harsh.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
Maybe as 2000Z-71 points out there is a spectrum and there are some people out there who may not be beyond hope. My guess is that people working in residential treatment programs are more likely to see those folks. I’d guess that officers on the street are probably more likely to see at least a greater cross section of folks, if not more folks at the other end of the spectrum.

Looking at how other government programs have worked out, it is hard to imagine that a program as described in the OP could possibly fail to create more addicts, ruin more lives, and incinerate more money that we don’t have.

A tale of two friends about a half century ago. Both from similar economic backgrounds, family dynamics, career choices, same ages. Both became addicts. Both entered a methadone program, one successful, the other not so. In and out several times.

Both realized the problem, one stopped before hitting the bottom. The other hit rock bottom a couple of times before he started on the road back from the abyss.

The addict has to want to change first and foremost.

quote:

Originally posted by tleddy:
jijones:

quote:

My suggestion is get to know a few actual addicts before you go throwing “solutions” around to the actual problem.

OP - over the years in the private sector in Florida and California my companies provided drug screenings to rehabilitation facilities. I met with both staff and clients. The facilities were private, not government funded, and the clients I met were universally attempting to get away from their addiction.

I am not suggesting that the people I met were your average ‘on the street, living in poverty’ since they could afford inpatient treatment. I cannot speak to that category of addiction.

You know what everyone says in Rehab? That they want to get off the addiction cycle. You know what happens, usually within days of their release? They are found overdosed. When I speak to parent in the other room as paramedics are working on their child, the parents tell me (almost 100% of the time) that their child just got out of rehab within the last 5 days. Here is what I tell the parents; until your child/loved one/relative is ready to change, it isn't going to happen. Going to rehab AND then getting out, back into the same "stressors" that made them want to try drugs as a relief isn't going to work until the addict wants to change. I could kidnap any addict, black bag over head, panel van, drive them 1000 miles away from their home, life and stressors, toss them out of the van in Bumfuck USA and within 30 minutes they will be scoring dope (panhandling or stealing to get the cash or trade goods that the dealer wants).

Killing the dope pipeline draws up dope prices which means addicts are more desperate to steal, turning simple shoplifting to Robberies with Injuries or Death. Educating and Rehab isn't working either. One Drug Court Counselor told me that their long term success rate is below 10% staying drug free.

Since the 1960's, there has been massive psy-ops about the magic of modern chemistry. We had Under Dog cartoons who became a hero after taking his special pill. The Rolling Stones had a song about "Mother's Little Helper". In the 1960s and part of the 1970s in Missouri there were 50,000 beds for the mentally ill, now there is only 5000 beds for long term patients. For a while there, every woman I dated was on some form of mood drugs (yep, I know the Crazy Hot Matrix) and half of a Police Department Command Staff were on mood drugs. So we have issues with illegal drugs and "marketed" drugs. If we were able to cut on both, then people who WANT and NEED to get high will use canned air, glue and paint thinner to get there. Hell, I had one long term drunk drink ISO-alcohol he was so desperate.

As for the "unsheltered" aka homeless, most of them are mentally drug addicts. Now it is a question of which came first, mentally ill or dope fiend. I will tell the result of a housing the homeless program that Missouri tried: After 3 months, there was only 6% still housed as the other 94% were kicked out or left because they did not like the rules they had to follow (no dope, take your meds, keep house/apartment clean, etc). These were normal rules that most of us follow everyday. After a year, less than .03% were still in a house or apartment. Not good results.

I am giving my perspective as an 8 year military cop and a 34 year civilian cop, and an almost 2 year court bailiff. I saw and see addicts every day. As a court bailiff, we are usually administering Narcan a couple times a month. Yes, people get high before coming to court or going out to the feed the parking meter. I don't know what will work, but it will have to be a 2 or 3 generation program and change. There are NO short term or mid range (5-10 years) fixes.

Of all the addicts I’ve ever had the displeasure to encounter, exactly two have beaten it. The percentage is not in favor of treatment. All but the aforementioned two have spent their lives in and out of rehab, had the support of family and friends and it was nothing but a giant emotional and financial drain.

I know a guy that I went to high school with that was addicted to meth back before it was a thing. He woke up one morning, decided he wanted off the train, and quit cold turkey. He’s been sober (and doesn’t so much as drink) for 35 years.

That a case study of one. And the only one I’ve ever seen.

Legalize everything. Let nature take its course.

quote:

Originally posted by Imabmwnut:
Legalize everything. Let nature take its course.

And restrict the use of Narcan.

quote:

Originally posted by Imabmwnut:
Legalize everything. Let nature take its course.

That's not wrong as long as the rest of us are not on the hook to pay for it. I don't think that ultimately there would be more crime or other problems. Drugs are so easily available now already that anyone who wants them will have them.

Users should be held responsible for their choices, not the rest of us.

Maybe make Narcan illegal ?? Also make it illegal to treat drug overdose (over the age of 12) in the ER ?? Let Darwin do the rest.... (it saddens me to say this)

Another thought.... If one were to make illegal drugs legal and free.... make it an absolute requirement to show that the user has been sterilized.

quote:

Originally posted by mike28w:
Maybe make Narcan illegal ?? Also make it illegal to treat drug overdose (over the age of 12) in the ER ?? Let Darwin do the rest.... (it saddens me to say this)

Another thought.... If one were to make illegal drugs legal and free.... make it an absolute requirement to show that the user has been sterilized.

These and some other Darwin ideas would likely be the outcome of free and legal.

We saw that after Prohibition failed and alcohol was once more legal, we did, indeed, produce alcoholics! The Prohibitionists forecast massive numbers of alcoholics, destroying society - that did not happen.

Yes, alcoholism is a serious problem… simply not to the degree they predicted.

I expect the same result with drugs, ie. still a problem, but not to the numbers that seem predicted. Darwin will demand its pound of flesh.