South Florida 12 story condo building partial collapse
I thought I read in one of the stories was that a certain type of tidal condition caused water to seep under the foundation. But I not have read anything about sea water actually entering the building.
End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
June 30, 2021, 04:08 PM
Bulldog7972
quote:
Originally posted by DaveL:
quote:
Originally posted by Timdogg6: Second, while there are other dilapidated buildings, this is the only one I have heard of that had 1-2 FEET of seawater rising up into the parking structure when the tide is high. That's nuts. I think when all this shakes out, you end up with a sinkhole of some type and poor maintenance that otherwise would have survived the sinkhole if it had been done properly and timely.
So very sad that this happened.
Where did you learn about tidal water in the parking structure? If that is accurate it's amazing to me that the building was not already condemned. That type of water movement multiple times every day would erode the building's support pretty significantly. Think of a seawall that has a breach in it - it doesn't take long for the tidal movement to carry away the soil behind it and leave a pretty big void.
I read the same thing in one of the Miami newspapers. Some of the engineers suspect that the problem originated with the pool.
June 30, 2021, 04:16 PM
corsair
quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I read the same thing in one of the Miami newspapers. Some of the engineers suspect that the problem originated with the pool.
Curious that the pool is a suspected-area...however, photos show the pool is detached from the building itself, located above the parking garage. Was there separate pool on the roof or, another much closer to the building?
The collapse pattern is practically straight down so, not one corner or, section of the building was weak but, an entire foundation had been eroded?
June 30, 2021, 04:42 PM
flashguy
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I read the same thing in one of the Miami newspapers. Some of the engineers suspect that the problem originated with the pool.
Curious that the pool is a suspected-area...however, photos show the pool is detached from the building itself, located above the parking garage. Was there separate pool on the roof or, another much closer to the building?
The collapse pattern is practically straight down so, not one corner or, section of the building was weak but, an entire foundation had been eroded?
The witness on the phone (now undoubtedly dead) said she saw the pool collapse just before the call went dead.
flashguy
Texan by choice, not accident of birth
June 30, 2021, 05:22 PM
ensigmatic
quote:
Originally posted by flashguy: The witness on the phone (now undoubtedly dead) said she saw the pool collapse just before the call went dead.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
June 30, 2021, 05:40 PM
Timdogg6
Guys the pool is still there so the stories of the pool collapse do not appear correct. Next a maintenance worker gave the statement to the Miami newspaper about excessive high tides causing the sea water to accumulate in the garage. It seemed like this was not a regular occurrence but occurred with something like a moon high tide several times a year.
__________________________ The entire reason for the Second Amendment is not for hunting, it’s not for target shooting … it’s there so that you and I can protect our homes and our children and and our families and our lives. And it’s also there as fundamental check on government tyranny. Sen Ted Cruz
June 30, 2021, 06:06 PM
rburg
Lots of wild theories being tossed about. Maybe by potential law suit targets trying to deflect the blame. Remember, lawyers will sue anyone they can find, or at least sue them all. The building hasn't been on the ground even a full week yet. We keep reading wild ass theories as to what might have caused it. Maybe it was an overweight couple up on the top floor (12 or 13/penthouse) that were dancing. I'd guess its and advantage to get the first suit filed. Not because the crooked lawyer knows what caused the building to fall, but because maybe he can get others to join him. Think big payoff, not facts. No one knows, but that's not needed to file a lawsuit.
Lots of people jumping the gun, but with lawsuits or wild ass theories as to causation. All we really know for certain is that its in a pile of rubble on the ground, and that somewhere between 11 and 160 folks aren't around anymore.
Unhappy ammo seeker
July 01, 2021, 09:51 AM
Jelly
July 01, 2021, 11:39 AM
HRK
quote:
Guys the pool is still there so the stories of the pool collapse do not appear correct.
The pool was leaking, and there was damage in the pool area, pictures at the link, and it was leaking into the parking area below according to the inspectors around space 78.
You can see where the pool deck dropped and the water level in the pool is down significantly,
Looked at some of the condos online that sold, all high end locations $600 to over a million dollars, the lobby and common areas were very nicely done, the reports make it sound like it was in the same condition as an old building in Detroit, but the images of the interior of the units and common areas don't a show poorly maintained property.
You can see the property specs and some of the previously sold unit pictures at the link below.
Guys the pool is still there so the stories of the pool collapse do not appear correct.
.... The pool was leaking, and there was damage in the pool area, pictures at the link, and it was leaking into the parking area below according to the inspectors around space 78.
You can see where the pool deck dropped and the water level in the pool is down significantly
The condition of the pool-area is sounding more like a symptom to the larger issue, water damage to foundational materials; If the pool area looks like this, what does the foundation to the rest of the property look like? Which points to how the building and site was built in the first place and the overall maintenance tempo of the property managers since construction.
July 01, 2021, 01:12 PM
HRK
Video of water coming out of the parking garage ceiling, which the pool was above, recorded by tourists that heard noises from next door minutes before it collapsed at the link.
If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 47....Make America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die!
July 01, 2021, 01:27 PM
parabellum
quote:
Originally posted by nhracecraft: No Shit....A Twelve story building just collapsed there!
This could be a factor, yes, possibly. We are analyzing the data.
July 01, 2021, 01:40 PM
HRK
quote:
No Shit....A Twelve story building just collapsed there!
Yeah no shit a building fell, question is, which collapsed first, the deck and the sub floors in the garage or the building.... no way to know yet...
We may never really know what gave out.
July 01, 2021, 03:07 PM
Jimbo54
This is gut wrenching. Rescuers heard a trapped woman pleading to be rescued but couldn't reach her. I can't imagine what that did to their morale.
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll have to be a horrible warning" -Catherine Aird
July 01, 2021, 04:06 PM
bigdeal
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo54: This is gut wrenching. Rescuers heard a trapped woman pleading to be rescued but couldn't reach her. I can't imagine what that did to their morale.
Their morale! What do you think it did to the woman's morale?
----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
July 01, 2021, 04:15 PM
Jimbo54
quote:
Originally posted by bigdeal:
quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo54: This is gut wrenching. Rescuers heard a trapped woman pleading to be rescued but couldn't reach her. I can't imagine what that did to their morale.
Their morale! What do you think it did to the woman's morale?
Do you really think I don't feel sick about what she and her family went through? That's what made it "gut wrenching".
Jim
________________________
"If you can't be a good example, then you'll have to be a horrible warning" -Catherine Aird
July 01, 2021, 05:12 PM
Graniteguy
At what point does it make sense to bring in heavy equipment? The trapped people are going to perish anyway. Or is it more of an issue with the risk of bringing in equipment and moving rubble that can set off a collapse of the other wings/units?
July 01, 2021, 06:54 PM
gpbst3
quote:
Originally posted by Graniteguy: At what point does it make sense to bring in heavy equipment? The trapped people are going to perish anyway. Or is it more of an issue with the risk of bringing in equipment and moving rubble that can set off a collapse of the other wings/units?
Very good question. Time is critical. With some of the rubble so far from the building why not start moving debris with heavy machinery.
I saw they were trying to drill and tunnel under the building. I don’t see how that can be any safer, especially for the rescuers, than using heavy machinery from above.
July 01, 2021, 08:18 PM
jimmy123x
I rode by the condo today by water and it just looks horrific.
Since the pool is above the parking garage, and the garage spans underneath the entire building. It is all tied together (pool deck and 1st floor of the actual building). If the pool let go, it could have been enough to destabilize the rest of the structure....Generally the rebar is all welded together across the entire building, so essentially all tied together........or possibly the crack/leak from the pool was because the other side of the building was letting go and destabilized the pool enough to crack a pipe or what have you. There is no way water came into the parking garage from the ocean side, the beach has way too much elevation......at least on the ocean side. We do get saltwater from high tides in certain areas that comes up above street level on king tides, but that is from storm drains that are tide into the Intracoastal waterway and back flow.....but it's generally not that many inches of water. It is a terrible and tragic situation and another building was built exactly like it 3 properties down, yet totally renovated on the outside and looks much different except the structure.
The problem with heavy machinery is that the building is built very close to the property lines and the damage is on the ocean side of the building, so no easy way to get heavy machinery to the back (ocean) side of the building.
Concrete restoration is a big thing in South Florida on these condo's.....but mostly regulated to just the balconies and such and generally on buildings built in the 1950's, 1960's and 70's. It's really surprising that this one was built in 1981.
Id post pictures but am way too tired to figure out a site to host them on.
That's what made it "gut wrenching".