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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
My God. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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Official Space Nerd |
Wow, this isn't China. Nobody should expect their high-rise to just up and collapse on them. People went to bed having NO IDEA they were hours/minutes/seconds away from death. That was so fast, even the people in the part that fell last had no chance whatsoever to even understand what was happening, much less escape. . . What a crappy way to go. Fear God and Dread Nought Admiral of the Fleet Sir Jacky Fisher | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
Man that's terrible, while most were asleep even. Nightmarish. | |||
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| Big Stack |
This is snowbird heaven, and it's getting hot Hopefully a good percentage of the missing just flew north for the summer. | |||
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Member |
Maybe a blessing in disguise? Can you imagine waking up in the middle of the night in one of the condos still standing, being totally rattled, then looking out the window to see this? Talk about traumatized. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine  |
Good Lord. Just enough time to maybe wake up and wonder what was going on. Then you are squashed. As someone said, at least it is probably a blessing to not know what hit you - no time for panic and fear. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Big Stack |
Video below is an analysis of the building's condition by an engineer using information available on the web. | |||
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| Member |
No sinkhole noted, but structural problems for the last three years: https://apnews.com/article/fl-...a842262e593812ad3ada -c1steve | |||
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| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
Word is, Tony Montana was the major investor and used a previous untested building material referred to as "coke-crete". | |||
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| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
You're making a joke? Seriously? ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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| Big Stack |
Apparently this building has an exact clone next door, and there are a lot of very similar buildings, both in age and construction techniques nearby. I bet there will be a lot of VERY busy engineering firms and concrete contractors in Miami for the next several years. | |||
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| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
From c1steves's linked video, if the structural engineering dude is correct, this is not an appropriate structural design for buildings in high corrosion environments. Other articles have reported that there were complaints and lawsuits about cracked concrete, corroded steel, and associated water leaks in the past, but those responsible for the maintenance of the building didn't do a whole lot about it was too late. Huge liability case will result, and hopefully, building codes and inspection requirements will be updated. However, in democrat run cities when a lot of developer money is involved, I don't have a lot of faith that code inspections and approvals are done correctly and without corrupt influence. Seriously we know how to build buildings that last forever absent events way outside the design margins (jet airliner strike at WTC), even in high corrosion environments. It is scary to think that a high rise condo building or co-op might be managed by the equivalent of a homeowner's association that does not have the expertise to understand what they are doing. Not sure how that works, maybe someone with real estate law experience can explain. | |||
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Member |
Horrific for the families, cannot imagine looking at that pancake of concrete and hoping they find your loved one. Good video, very measured and logical. As the Mayor of Surfside said today - we don’t have buildings that collapse in the US, something was really wrong here. Will be a legal mess but I hope we learn and maybe even prevent another building from failing. I cannot imagine living in a high rise right now and sleeping well. “Forigive your enemy, but remember the bastard’s name.” -Scottish proverb | |||
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| Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
This shouldn't have been left to the condo association people that are mostly volunteers and resident owners. There must be some area building officials that aren't sleeping too well right now. Likely no one wanted to be that person that read an engineering report and condemned the building or else someone violated regulations somewhere. Here is a report from the engineering company in 2018. The report reads much like a regular building inspection when you buy a house and doesn't really express the urgency or seriousness of the situation in a large building like this. https://www.townofsurfsidefl.g...df?sfvrsn=882a1194_2 ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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| Big Stack |
The question becomes, liability against who? The developer, architect, and construction company from forty years ago. We'll soon hear if any still exist / are still alive. I'm kind of skeptical. The management company. That's a piece of paper with likely very little assets. The insurance companies for the building and homeowners are already on the hook, but will try to squirm off. But they'll only pay at most to the limit of the coverage. There's likely not deep pocket here to sue. And ALL condos are managed my HOAs that are run by the owners who aren't smart enough to not take the job, and management companies that are usually pretty fly by night, and are mostly interested in getting kickbacks from vendors.
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| Muzzle flash aficionado  |
I would not be surprised if that other building experiences a lot of people moving out right away. flashguy Texan by choice, not accident of birth | |||
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| Member |
I do quite a bit of post tension structure repair. Post tensioning is actually preferred in structures like this as the cables in modern systems are fully encapsulated meaning they are greased and completely encased in a plastic sheath and the anchors at the stressing end are covered with a locking grease cap to prevent corrosion. Rebar is at best epoxy coated and will corrode much sooner than a cable will. A building of this age may have used an older style PT system in which the anchorages were not encapsulated. Either way the spalls shown in the video by the engineer are sure signs of serious trouble and should have been addressed immediately by building management especially if they were reported a couple years ago. The repair would have been incredibly expensive and invasive of peoples individual apartments but had they been done at the first sign of a problem and non encapsulated anchorages replaced with newer encapsulated anchors the building would still be standing today. | |||
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Void Where Prohibited |
Is this type of post tension building erected by the "lift slab" method? That has no bearing on the collapse, I'm just wondering about the construction method. "If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards | |||
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| Member |
My father managed a condo on the beach in Boca Raton for a few years. Was talking to him about this - their condo had some maintenance issues and inspection due. When he come into the job, found out the board was stonewalling as too expensive and “not needed”. Had been going on for a few years prior to his arrival. He got his ducks in a row, got the law firm they used to join him at a board meeting and explained the law, liability and what they needed to do. Read it all into the minutes and forced them to take the necessary steps. I don’t think that happens too often - and because buildings don’t fall down and no one wants to spend the $$ - these things go on for years. I’d bet a lot of condo boards and buildings are suddenly sh*tting a brick right now and a lot of condo canyon dwellers will be be getting bills in the coming few years for overdue repairs. Condo boards are literally the worst - and he no longer does this. Was supposed to be a part time retirement job but too much of a hassle - he went sailing  .“Forigive your enemy, but remember the bastard’s name.” -Scottish proverb | |||
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Nosce te ipsum |
There’s no ceiling on passing the buck. C/P: Millennium Tower in San Francisco . . . has sunk 18 inches and tilted 14 inches since it was completed in 2008. | |||
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