My son went to Walgreen's to get some snacks and was followed home by a black suspect. Somewhere along the way he stopped and the suspect approached my son's car and told him to give him the fuzzy dice hanging from his rear view mirror and then $40, which my son only had $26 that he gave up, not wanting any trouble. The suspect was bigger and whether or not he had a weapon was unknown but not worth finding out.

He came home and I heard loud rap music and wondered what was going on, he came in to the house through the garage and called to me. The suspect had approached the closing double door and caused it to reverse back upward and said something about needing some tools.

I naturally armed myself and grabbed a surefire and looked outside the garage with the flashlight and didn't see a lot, so I closed the garage door.

Then I heard the loud music again, went outside and shined the surefire and saw a car a few houses down on the side of the road. After a brief standoff, he took off and I could see some of the plate (handicapped tag) but not the number.

I told my son to call 911 and report the robbery. First officer responding took the info but implied that giving the dice and money was voluntary and not robbery. Yeah, 17 year old skinny kid being chased by a larger guy demanding his possessions is not robbery.

Anyway, the officer returned and said they got the guy and apparently he caused trouble at a Sports Bar not too far away and some other places, but reaffirmed my son's property would have to be "given" back. Then he returned again and asked if we wanted to press charges for unlawful residential entry for the garage door thing and I said yes.

That's where it is right now. More later I guess.

Sorry to hear the news. Glad your son is physically ok.

I'm curious as to what town this happened in given your location. I know it has to be a larger city to have a sports bar.
You can e-mail me the location if you'd like to keep it off the web.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Sorry to hear the news. Glad your son is physically ok.

I'm curious as to what town this happened in given your location. I know it has to be a larger city to have a sports bar.
You can e-mail me the location if you'd like to keep it off the web.

Avon, Indiana - due west and bordering Indianapolis. Sports Bar is in Avon on Route 36, a mile or so east of the Walgreens which is more or less in the middle of Avon.

That’s kinda crazy, Lefty. I know things are creeping out, many are emboldened with current trends.

I guess my barky German Shepherd isn’t to much to put up with after all.

I have a $110 dash cam to capture what I can.

Bummer Lefty. Too bad you could have not just shot the mutha fucker.

One of the single biggest aggravations as a police supervisor is officers that do a shit job communicating, either from a lack of empathy or just being a jerk.

Bottom line is the facts (of the fuzzy dice and the money) most likely don’t meet the specific elements required for a crime, be it robbery or some variety of larceny. But I’d be irritated as hell with them if I got the phone call from you with the description you gave in your post for not going out of their way to ease you/your son into that realization, and at least have confirmed they would document it in some way, especially with him causing other issues.

Could what you described have made it past a prosecutor’s desk for court or a grand jury? Absolutely not in my jurisdiction. Could they have taken the time to explain that in a way that you wouldn’t necessarily have agreed with, but could have understood and seen their empathy? That’s my expectation in these situations.


Some 80+ year old lady called 911 tonight because her power went off and she was scared. Did I cancel the call because we were busy on a Friday night and that’s not a crime? No. We handled business and showed her as much empathy as we could. Not every call is glorious, but they all deserve the proper attention and a good communication.

Thanks lefty. Indy was what come to my mind first.

I live 20 minutes from there and generally that is a pretty safe area. Just goes to show no matter where you are there can be danger. I really feel for you and your son as that would be a really bad day.

chongosuerte,

Thanks for taking the time to explain what should have been explained by the LEO involved. Your presence and sanity here are much appreciated.

Sorry for what was undoubtedly a scary situation for you and your son. Our selective enforcement of law and the inability to keep law and order I believe has emboldened an entire segment of our population that feels others are responsible for their crappy circumstances. Add to that a year of being locked up on house arrest, it feels like things are ready to blow. I’m glad your son was not hurt.

Forgive me as I'm slow sometimes, but is it not a robbery because there was no force or threat of force involved? If I walk up to someone, say "Give me your car keys", they do without hesitation, and I drive off, I'm good?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Forgive me as I'm slow sometimes, but is it not a robbery because there was no force or threat of force involved? If I walk up to someone, say "Give me your car keys", they do without hesitation, and I drive off, I'm good?

Here in Ky the use of force or the THREAT of use of force must be used for it to be classified as a robbery.
If not it would be classified as Theft by Unlawful taking. In my county it would be enforced. Granted that would likely be a plea deal down to harassment or disorderly conduct which is a violation and not a misdemeanor. So along the lines of a traffic ticket

I see the OP is in Indiana so I checked the theft statute.
And to me the way the code is so poorly written. If you ask nicely or there is no threat and someone willing gives you something. Then there is no crime. No mention of intimidation or coercion. Unless it is covered by some other statute/code I can not find.

quote:

2017 Indiana Code
TITLE 35. Criminal Law and Procedure
ARTICLE 43. OFFENSES AGAINST PROPERTY
CHAPTER 4. Theft, Conversion, and Receiving Stolen Property
35-43-4-2. Theft

IC 35-43-4-2 Theft

Sec. 2. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally exerts unauthorized control over property of another person, with intent to deprive the other person of any part of its value or use, commits theft, a Class A misdemeanor.

The code specifically states unauthorized control! Someone willfully handing someone something by reading would constitute authorized control.

What a poorly worded code!!!
The officer seems right that there is no crime here according to code.

I still would have taken a report for theft to help ease the posters son at the time. As Chongo stated likely would get tossed in the trash can by the prosecutors.

following you home and making like they were going to enter your residence through you garage. That sounds like one step away from a home invasion.

Good for you for pressing charges. His next crime might involve a wife or daughter. Then what?

There is enough here to assume this either is not his first offense. Or his future ones are going to do damage. Real damage.

I'm sorry you and especially your 17 year old son had to go through this. Having learned more about the laws in this thread I'll put this in the one of the reasons I carry a gun column.
I never knew that if someone demands your stuff and you give it to them it's considered voluntary.

Eye opener for me as well and will factor into what I teach my kids as they approach driving age.

Airborne lead is the solution

Thanks for the comments.

I told my son that the first rule is never to engage. If being followed in a car by a suspect that he does not know, do not stop, do not try to find out what the follower wants. Keep driving to safety - such as home, or until the follower leaves, pull in the garage, stay in the car, and close the main door behind him. He can call for help, either 911 or me, even while still driving to report the follower.

The officer did explain that without threat of force or any weapon then it's not really a robbery and I get that. I just don't like it. Seems like a law to protect pan handlers downtown Indy from being arrested.

Lot of crazy people out there now. Someone so bold to follow you then demand property/money could react violently if ignored. The officer did say that they think this guy is mentally unstable (for whatever reason drugs or not) based on all of his actions last night.

You have to be pretty stupid to follow a kid home in Hendricks County and case the house when a parent is present after trying to enter an attached garage. We have some of the highest volume of gun dealers in the state within a few miles of my house, most people have a firearm of some kind, and many have carry permits, all elections are decided in the Republican primaries.

Forceable entry into an occupied home is grounds for deadly force in Indiana. Strong arming a closing garage door so it reverses and reopens is not exactly "breaking and entering" but it is using force. Of course a garage is not the same as inside the house so that's another question.

But in the end, my son got away less a couple of bucks worth of fuzzy dice and $26 in cash, and he's OK now. That's more important than anything else. And he learned a couple things too. Maybe he will be more interested in shooting real guns now, instead of video game guns, and he can get a permit in Indiana when he turns 18 in August.

Oddly, the last time I had to call police was 11 or 12 years ago on Good Friday when rich kids from a nearby subdivision vandalized my garage door, a neighbor's mailbox and some other stuff. They got caught too.

Edited to add:

f2 - we re-watched Collateral a couple weeks ago and he is a fan of Michael Mann movies and the typically accurate gun handling.

Para - yeah I had 18 rounds of Sig at my side when I went outside with the Surefire. Not sure if the perp could see it or not, but he wasn't on my property or threatening me so it stayed at my side.

In CA and many others the crime of robbery is committed when an offender takes the property belonging to another from a person in lawful possession of that property, through the use of force, threatened use of force, or fear. I'd strongly suggest contacting this officer's supervisor (sergeant) with your son and going over the details of the incident with him/her. It may be a very new officer unfamiliar with the applicable law(s) or an experienced officer just trying to kiss off the investigation. In any case, the supervisor should know about this and if (as I believe) the description of the incident is correct and a robbery did occur, this should be handled properly. You and your son ARE the PD's "customers', you're paying for services, and should be served properly.

ETA: Here's the Indiana legal definition of the crime of Robbery. It certainly appears this applies to your son's incident.

Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-42-5-1

Sec. 1 . (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a person who knowingly or intentionally takes property from another person or from the presence of another person:

(1) by using or threatening the use of force on any person;  or

(2) by putting any person in fear; commits robbery, a Level 5 felony.  However, the offense is a Level 3 felony if it is committed while armed with a deadly weapon or results in bodily injury to any person other than a defendant, and a Level 2 felony if it results in serious bodily injury to any person other than a defendant.

(b) A person who knowingly or intentionally takes a controlled substance from a pharmacist acting in an official capacity or from a pharmacy by:

(1) using or threatening the use of force on any person;  or (2) putting any person in fear; commits robbery, a Level 4 felony.  However, the offense is a Level 2 felony if it is committed while armed with a deadly weapon or results in bodily injury to any person other than the defendant, and the offense is a Level 1 felony if it results in serious bodily injury to any person other than the defendant.

I’ve been followed several times while driving my red car and in two cases I called 911 and asked for directions to the nearest police station where the guy was easily apprehended. One other time in my home town I just called the dispatch line and had a cruiser meet me at the Home Depot.

No way would I stop or try to engage.