I'm still planning to learn the violin in retirement. The goal is to play Vivaldi's Four Seasons at some beginner level (not recital level, not professional level - just some decent, personally satisfying level. No plans for playing on a stage).

I've been looking for decent used violins from familiar brand names (yamaha, suzuki, stentor) but nothing decent has been coming up.

I've never heard of this brand before but it seems favorably received. They have a sale.

Is it worth buying a new, sale item from here? Or should I keep looking what I have been?

https://mcneelamusic.com/violin-offers/

Perhaps this? https://mcneelamusic.com/violi...advanced-violin-set/

Or this? https://mcneelamusic.com/strin...ela-virtuoso-violin/

I assume they are made in Ireland and not chicom. Chicom would be a deal breaker.

An alternative from Yamaha that may be considered in this price range: https://usa.yamaha.com/product...ex.html#product-tabs (not sure if made in chicom or not yet)

My son was a violin music major in college, and now works for a master violin maker. From my experiences buying him violins growing up and now discussing the topic with him, it is important for you to listen to several violins for their tone, as well as have someone play them to test the feel.

Different instruments of the same make and model will sound and feel different. That goes for everything from the cheapest to the most expensive.

Note, too, that the bow is equally important. There are some pretty good carbon fiber bows out there now, and a used one will save some money. For the money in the student range, you'll get a better carbon bow than a wood bow.

Expect to rehair the bow every year. Also you'll need to replace the strings periodically, and there is a difference in quality for sure. The rosin is important, at least avoid the cheapest stuff.

Jmho, avoid the lower priced instruments and bows. Something in the mid-range for price for student instruments will be better and last you longer.

A good shop will offer a trade-up credit on what you buy from them if you later buy a more expensive instrument or bow from them.

Thanks for the help.

When going to a store to listen to violins, what would I listen for since I have no experience (just listen to CDs)? Does it assume I bring a friend (if available) who is familiar with violins? How about the daughter of a friend who's learning to play - would that be good enough? She's just a beginner but has been playing for a couple of years (middle school I think).

Your advice is good and makes sense - violin, bow, strings. I just have no clue how to determine which is good for me and what price to pay. I went to a store to look at violins (just passing by really) and they all look the same to me.

Good or bad, do I just pick one that sounds good to my untrained, uneducated ear? And pick a bow (after sampling a few) that sounds good w/ that violin?

What is considered low priced instruments and bows? What price should I consider for used? For new? New starter violins seem to start around $1000. Not sure about bows. Would $500 be a good target for a used $1000 violin?

Does age matter? Or only condition (at least good cosmetic condition)?

I think what you're generally saying is to buy first hand, new or used, from a store - don't buy online sight unseen (or unheard, so to speak).

quote:

Does age matter? Or only condition (at least good cosmetic condition)?

(Being a wise ass) Maybe you can find one of those real old Stradivarius violins that no one else wants.

I see a lot of new ones with Stradivarius in the name. Must be good - only $99 too!

konata, I wish I had more helpful advice. I do hope you find the perfect instrument for you!

Thanks. I’m less than clueless now but i have faith things will work out.

I wonder if a local high school or college orchestra teacher could help you. Might even turn into a source for lessons to play?

Don't we have a member here that restores/repairs violins?

^^^ We do! He contributed to another violin thread.

And I think it's a great idea to contact a local school music department to get opinions/help.

Rent! Rent! You don’t know what you don’t know.

Follow the same path as a youth learning to play.

Once you learn, become proficient and truly enjoy the instrument, then buy.

I have a violin from a maker in china. I have a violin handmade by a noted luthier. I have an electric violin made in Australia. Each has a place in my “carry rotation.”

The four seasons is an orchestral composition, with a few examples online of unsuspecting pianists joined by young violinists for clicks. There are other baroque compositions by Vivaldi you may find more approachable as a beginner.

Expect the best outcome if you learn with the Suzuki method. I was in the first Suzuki method group in America, way back in 1966.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

I think what you're generally saying is to buy first hand, new or used, from a store - don't buy online sight unseen (or unheard, so to speak).

Correct!

One of my son's responsibilities is to play instruments for buyers who either don't play or who want to listen from the audience perspective. He plays every instrument in the shop regularly and knows the characteristics of each.

Good shops would have someone to do this, though the question would be how much financial bias do they have?

You will notice some instruments sound mellow, some loud, some harsh, some have annoying resonances. The demonstrator should point these things out to you. The bow makes a big difference, so you should listen to different combinations.

I think taking someone along could be helpful to be sure you're getting honest info from the shop. If you have a teacher who isn't financially affiliated with the shop, that would be a good choice too. Your friend's daughter might be a good help, too. She certainly can tell you what she hears and how the violins and bows feel.

Renting isn't a bad idea, though the instrument should be of the same quality as you'd buy. Parents rent because kids quit. If the shop offers credit towards buying or upgrade, it would open up your future options. My concern is you get an instrument that is plenty good enough to grow into as your skills improve.

Old vs new isn't a significant price factor, sort of. Instruments sound better after getting good play time on them. They mellow and get richer sounding. The maker is a price factor. So a decent student instrument from 60 years ago could be a viable candidate, as could a brand new instrument. You might find a trade-in at the shop where a student played it for a few years then traded up to a more expensive instrument. The identical new instrument to the trade-in might not sound quite as good because it has no play time on it, but the trade-in may have a few minor scuffs.

Very old instruments start gaining value for rarity and perceived better sound. They've all probably had significant repairs, but that is expected and not a detractor. In other instruments, like guitars, being used is a big value reduction. Not unlike new vs used cars. But violins are different.

Idk what the current pricing looks like. I'll ask my son and get back to you.

I'll look into renting. Do they have different rental levels - $200 cheap ones, $500 beginner ones, $1000 student ones? Or generally all the same? I presume rentals come in different classes reflecting different skill levels. If so, I should target the $500-$1000 class of violin (same as what I would try to buy)?

How much are rentals typically? Per month? $30 sound about right?

I think there is a Yamaha instrument store within driving distance. Should I try there? Or some sort of store where multiple brands are sold?

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
The four seasons is an orchestral composition, with a few examples online of unsuspecting pianists joined by young violinists for clicks. There are other baroque compositions by Vivaldi you may find more approachable as a beginner.

Expect the best outcome if you learn with the Suzuki method. I was in the first Suzuki method group in America, way back in 1966.

How prevalent is the Suzuki method? Will it be hard to find a teacher employing this method? Or common? Would it be worth driving an hour for a Suzuki method teacher over a teacher that is 20 min away? (just for concept). I'm hoping to minimize lessons and leverage retirement time and self learning (for cost and pace reasons). So hope I can use the method using books and self taught to some extent. But not sure what it really takes to get a good foundation started.

Four Seasons is the goal. Along the way, hope to learn other pieces (violin concertos, whatever) from Mozart, Vivaldi. Pachelbel's Canon would be nice too. Maybe the first violin parts....?

Not looking to do recitals on stage for audiences. Just perhaps decent enough to play in front of house guests w/o them screaming and running from the room.

Suzuki is everywhere. I can't imagine there isn't a good instructor in your area that doesn't use it.

Remember that we play music, we don't work music. Be sure to have fun with it along the way.

For me, playing with other musicians is the most fun, whether they be much better than me or just learning. Playing in front of an audience is a big part of learning. I recommend finding a circle of musicians to play with. Meetup.com is one source where you might find such a group. Once you can play notes with ok tone (not screeching), and read music notation ok, go ahead and start finding others to play with. I bet there are groups of similar minded people who will help you along, and it will boost your skills quickly. Even if you're just playing long notes while others are fiddling away at high speed, you'll learn a lot and also have a bunch of fun.

Jmho, there is no substitute for a good in-person teacher. Zoom online lessons are ok, and are better than self-learning, but in person is quite superior.

Thanks for the tips.

I assume reading notes is common between piano and violin. I plan to learn both (I learned piano as a child; i have an upright that needs to be tuned). I need to learn how to read notes from scratch though. Hopefully it's common.

I think it would be fun to casually play with others someday. The only person I know now is my friend's daughter. But we'll see if I can find others. I'm not very social to begin with though.

In high school, one of my friends was learning to play. Whenever he would practice, his brother and I would have to leave the house. It was like this for a year. I hope the screeching phase is much shorter for me....

I visited a few local stores - instrument sales, rentals and lessons.

One place requires a one year lesson commitment. I’m not I'm ready to commit to that level. Especially if it assumes 2-4 hours of practice everyday. I’m looking to go at my own pace, not a predefined pace suitable for, say, school students.

Other places, I need to contact the instructor directly and work things out.

Violin rentals so far is limited; all basic beginner cheap models. Choice is only used or new (rent to own). Not too keen. And no idea about bow choice.

In any case, if I don’t rent soon, sounds like they get mostly rented out for the school year. Not much left to rent in a few weeks.


So, I may need to rethink my approach. Perhaps (re-)learn piano to start. In particular, how to read music and sheet music. Develop that proficiency with piano. Then add on violin lessons.

In the meantime, figure out how to rent or buy (new or used) an appropriate violin and bow.

The Suzuki method does not require reading music. You first learn body position arm motions hand movements and how to sustain these for a few minutes. You next listen to the first songs to play. Many times. You then learn which strings and fingers match up with the song notes. In a short time you play along with the song.

You must teach your mind to listen and mimic what you hear physically on the violin.

You then will be able to play along on any song. Your mind will bring joy to your heart as you hear the notes being played and your body moving to match them easily.

In time you will read music, for more advanced songs. But you will learn the sound corresponding to the music on the page and instinctively play that note.

Konata, I played violin growing up and was always first or second chair in orchestra in a town with an internationally famous college music school (many of my orchestra mates had parents who were music professors). I really believe you are way overthinking this. Buy a student-quality violin from any well-known brand. If you can find a college kid who teaches lessons, take beginner lessons from them. I did before I had a more professional teacher. Don’t underestimate a masters or PhD music student. Suzuki is great. All those tiny tots who sound like virtuosos? They learned by Suzuki method.