Yeah, I want my income to equal a billionaire.

OK Richard. Step to the plate. How much of your fortune are YOU going to give away?

quote:

Originally posted by nojoy:
Isn't there a phrase in the Bible about teaching a man how to fish....

...and he'll try to steal your boat.

If you divided all the wealth in the world equally amongst all the people in the world, within 5 years or so, the Bransons, Gates, Buffetts, Trumps etc. guys would have it mostly back, because they have the skills and work ethics to do it. Spot an opportunity, work very hard, no distractions, never quit, etc.

Quite true. I have seen it happen in reality. Lose all your money go to prison, repent and rise to the top again. America affords those opportunities for people. Michael Milliken is one example.

A "universal income" is not entirely a crazy idea. It was even advocated by noted conservative free-market economist Milton Friedman.

The idea is that we are going to have welfare anyway, of some form, so if the "poor" get a NON_TAX_FREE Income, then they have some "skin in the game" when tax rates are decided. With current welfare it is just a monomaniacal drive to tax more to get more.

Agreed that it departs from any ideological purity. But it is a real problem. No matter how fair we try to make things and how much "opportunity" we have, there are some people who are just factually too dumb and lazy to get a productive job, and most people's ethics will not allow them to simply "rot and die". As a practical matter, they also create a lot of problems during the rotting and dying process.

So, we all advocate helping "the deserving poor". And then there is a big gray area....but I think we have to recognize that we have to do something even for the "non-deserving, completely lazy, ne'er-do-well, ripoff scam poor" just to minimize our collective inconvenience.

A guaranteed income sort of removes any claim that anyone is "oppressing" them and removes any excuse that their condition is anything but self-inflicted.

We already dole out income via free welfare and services in America. Since 1964 we have spent 20 Trillion on so-called inequality. What has that gotten us?

As I have noted before, how do you provide a safety net without it becoming a hammock?

I am still waiting for my $1M wire transfer from Branson to backup his position.

Drat!!! And I worked all those years. Where was a universal basic income, irrespective of employment status, when I needed it

I think a universal basic (if free) income is a horrible idea. Money for nothing is way too sweet of a deal for people to not take advantage of it.

A $15,000 per year free income is a way, way better deal that a $30,000 pear year income that has to be paid for with 40hrs per week of labor.

30,000/40*4*12=$15.63 per hour wage

15,000/0*4*12=plenty of time to be a shithead.

A universal basic job law however, has the potential to solve a lot of problems.

A farmer in Yuma who needs Chile pepper pickers + unemployed freeloaders in Chicago who need an income = fewer illegal aliens coming to pick Chile peppers in Yuma.

No laws even need passed. If you do away with free shit, the freeloaders in Chicago will move to Yuma, to pick the chiles, in order to avoid starving to death. But, for societal freeloaders to totally uproot their lives and make so significant a change, the probability of starvation and death must exist, and must be real.

It's been proven to work, time and time again. In a million years of human history, people have repeatedly migrated in the direction of resources.

An example of what happens when this natural state-of-things is disrupted by feel-good politics (giving people free shit), is evident all over the world.


Now, if we look at the problem sequence of events in reverse, causality become apparent.

1. Welfare state results in free shit recipients not migrating to the location of resources. They remain concentrated in urban shitholes. This results it crime.

2. The lack of low skill workers migrating to their respective low skill jobs results in a high demand for low skill labor.

3. A high demand for low skill labor results in even more migration, from places that don't give out free shit.

So why doesn't he start distributing his wealth?

Put up or shut up. It's a disgrace he doesn't do anything other than talk.

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
Digging ditches could be easily done with an AI controlled steam shovel, wouldn't be much to it.

Combining AI and "steam shovel" now there is a novel idea.

I don't think the AI that becomes a diesel mechanic, does bridge repair, or restores sailing ships will be around in my lifetime.

If the burgerbot shows up, at least I could get what I asked for. As for now, motion sensor BS doesn't really work and I can't think of anyone who likes to call an 800 number and talk to the machine. "Main menu! Representative! I want to speak to a representative!!!"

I'd like free shit as much as the next guy, but I don't think the streets of San Francisco are what they used to be...

I wonder why Branson hasn’t tried the path blazed by more forward thinking royalty, like this nobleman.

I won a Nigerian lottery according to an email I received from a Nigerian prince named Tyrone the Second.





He holds the sum of ONE MILLION DOLLARS in my name and he wants to send it to me FREE!

​All I have to do is give him my bank account numbers and send him $500.00 US dollars cash, to show my good faith so he can transfer the money!

What could be easier?

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
Won't work. Those things that make and keep people poor will still be there. How about we solve air pollution by installing giant fans to blow it all into space?

Well, take it a step further. Look at what we already give the "poor". Free housing, free food, free healthcare, assistance for this, and assistance for that. And they are generally still poor. Go into any housing project and see how well "free" stuff is taken care of. Look at the number of big screen TVs you can see through the windows. The number of late model SUVs you see in the parking lot. The number of $2000 cars with $5000 worth of wheels and tires on them. Look at some of these free habitat for humanity homes and look at them a year or two later. They had to move away from anything aluminum such as siding or gutters because they just got torn off and sold for scrap.

I am all about charity and helping those that truly can't help themselves. But, each time this is brought up (certainly not here and definitely not by you), you have people that point out that there are legitimately people in need and that "we" shouldn't judge them the same as the mooches. Yet, each time a piece of legislation is put into place to shut down the moochers, the ones that remind us that there are legitimate people in need throw fits because hitting the moochers hard is a sign that "we" hate poor people, "we" are monsters, etc.

Here in Kentucky, the Governor has tried to hit the moochers hard. And he is a monster to the left because he hates poor people. He hates children. Classic example is the pension system is in shambles. He tried to make cuts that to keep from raising taxes. Most of the cuts were new people that the state hasn't made commitments to yet. The other was teachers have a guaranteed 1.5 percent COLA raise, despite the fact that no one else gets it. So, he tried to take that 1.5 percent, and trim it to 1 percent. And they went berserk. Bevin hates teachers, Bevin wants to kill the pension system. Bevin hates education. Bevin hates school children. Throughout the process, he tried to explain that we were out of money and the only other option was to put the burden on the taxpayers. They kept up the Bevin hates teachers. So, a tax increase went into effect the first of this month. And guess what? Despite being warned that this would happen if we didn't make reasonable cutbacks, now it is his fault that he is raising taxes for his "fat cat Republican buddies".

I am about sick of the spin.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
If you divided all the wealth in the world equally amongst all the people in the world, within 5 years or so, the Bransons, Gates, Buffetts, Trumps etc. guys would have it mostly back, because they have the skills and work ethics to do it. Spot an opportunity, work very hard, no distractions, never quit, etc.

5 years is a bit of an exaggeration but I agree with your theory in principle. I'll add to that and say the vast majority of people that had no money will once again have no money in 5 years.

quote:

Originally posted by Angus the Kid:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
If you divided all the wealth in the world equally amongst all the people in the world, within 5 years or so, the Bransons, Gates, Buffetts, Trumps etc. guys would have it mostly back, because they have the skills and work ethics to do it. Spot an opportunity, work very hard, no distractions, never quit, etc.

5 years is a bit of an exaggeration but I agree with your theory in principle. I'll add to that and say the vast majority of people that had no money will once again have no money in 5 years.

Emphasis added.

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter01:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
Digging ditches could be easily done with an AI controlled steam shovel, wouldn't be much to it.

Combining AI and "steam shovel" now there is a novel idea.

That could be interesting, especially working in city streets. The as-builts, if they even have any are always wrong, and it is not uncommon for an excavator to pull up a gas, water, or electric line in the middle of a job. Wonder how the AI would deal with that...

There's been a lot of talk amongst economists about Universal Income (UI) and I'm still reading through and listening to some podcasts about it. Socialist dreamers think UI means massive paychecks and zero work, economists view UI has supplementary income, enough to pay the bills but, not enough to replace a job. The big issue that is being discussed is the change in the American economy. Over 50% of the American population works in a field that will soon be replaced by automation/AI: Long-haul truckers, retail staff, fast-food/industrial food service, office & administrative clerks and manufacturing positions. The population isn't shrinking and the dems with their open-borders position will only flood the country with more unskilled working age people.

At the most basic level, the Alaska Permanent Fund is UI: every permanent citizen in AK, gets a check from the state, all you have to do is move there. The largest payout I think was a couple of years ago at $2000/person. Interestingly, Thomas Paine, Richard Nixon and Milton Friedman were advocates for UI. I'm still of the position that UI is a program ripe for abuse, however, what the economists are saying and what the social engineering types are saying (and how the media is trying to interpret it) are very different.

Friedman's plan...get rid of all the govt assistance programs, replace with a negative income tax.

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter01:

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
Digging ditches could be easily done with an AI controlled steam shovel, wouldn't be much to it.

Combining AI and "steam shovel" now there is a novel idea.

Heh, heh. On the other hand, without steam, AI wouldn't work. Steam provides most of the world's electricity.

I notice he didnt leave an address where I can write him so he can send me some of his money..... hmmmm... an oversight perhaps?