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Former employer is fighting my unemployment claim, any recommendations? Login/Join 
CAPT Obvious
Picture of Spiff_P239
posted
Back in February I was terminated from my job. Official cause was for violating a known rule, however I, and many of my former coworkers, know that the real reason I was fired was because I was vocal about the lack of discipline and double standards on the job. I will have to attend a hearing to state my case, despite having initially been awarded benefits. If I lose, I believe that I will have to pay back the 12 weeks worth of payments that I have received to date. What advice would you give me as to how I should proceed? Should I consult a lawyer, and if so, does anyone know someone in SE Michigan?
 
Posts: 3572 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not you,
it's me.
Picture of RAMIUS
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I didn’t even know an employer can fight a claim after firing someone.
 
Posts: 7016 | Location: Right outside Philly | Registered: September 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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“Everybody knows” won’t cut it. Was your rule violation documented? How serious was the infraction? Have others been fired for the same violation? Be prepared to disclose names of those who were given lesser punishments. Be prepared to defend any write ups. And yes, employers can contravert claims. I’ve done it successfully.
 
Posts: 17323 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
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I was always under the impression that you were not eligible for unemployment if you were fired.


________________________________________________________
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
 
Posts: 21011 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
CAPT Obvious
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I’m not sure how much information I should post online but I worked in the restaurant business and was fired for giving away a free dessert, which is something that happened all the time and nobody else was ever punished (employees would eat them all the time as well). As far as I’m aware, I did not have any write-ups in my file, or if there was, it was from ~10 years ago. I hadn’t even been reprimanded in the same amount of time while other employees were written up many times before they were terminated.
 
Posts: 3572 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This likely varies significantly by state.

Does the employer have a written policy on discipline? Did they follow it?
 
Posts: 5254 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
CAPT Obvious
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There is a written policy regarding that. I guess my burden is proving that the rules aren’t enforced in a universal manner.
 
Posts: 3572 | Location: SE Michigan | Registered: February 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
It's not you,
it's me.
Picture of RAMIUS
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
I was always under the impression that you were not eligible for unemployment if you were fired.


I’ve been fired and collected. I think you can’t collect if you quit.
 
Posts: 7016 | Location: Right outside Philly | Registered: September 08, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just for the
hell of it
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I would talk to a lawyer. Prepare for the hearing and be ready with an answer to any accusations.

This happened to my dad a few years ago. The company he was working for was bought up by a major player in their business. I'm not going to name them but everyone here has likely interacted or used them before.

They wanted to push out the older management people and bring in their own people that happened to be much younger and cost a lot less. They started writing him up for BS stuff. He kept a notebook on what happened and such. They tried to deny his claim. He talked to a lawyer and prepared for the hearing. It was very stressful for him but in the end, he was able to collect unemployment. He was able to show he never broke any company rules even though they tried to make it out as he had. He was in his 70's at the time and had paid into the system his entire life and never collected anything until then.


_____________________________________

Because in the end, you won’t remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn. Climb that goddamn mountain. Jack Kerouac
 
Posts: 16486 | Registered: March 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The case will not be decided on what's "fair." The only issue will be facts. Fredward's post nails it.
 
Posts: 1087 | Location: New Jersey  | Registered: May 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
safe & sound
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quote:
He was in his 70's at the time and had paid into the system his entire life and never collected anything until then.



I don't know if it's the same in other states, but in Missouri the employee pays nothing into the unemployment system. It's 100% employer monies, and the more claims you have the more it cost. It's in the employers best interest to have as few successful claims as possible.


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Posts: 15946 | Location: St. Charles, MO, USA | Registered: September 22, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've been termed and been able to collect. The threshold in AZ is whether you were termed for willful misconduct. UI asks the employer if you really made an effort to do your job and if you tried to sabotage the business. Even the shady, cheapskate, tax-shelter of a place I worked was afraid to lie about me on those questions, and my UI was approved.
 
Posts: 3821 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: October 24, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
sick puppy
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In Utah, if my employer fires someone and they go for unemployment, then my employer has to pay a certain amount into the unemployment fund. We can always fight it, and often win since, at least the terminations im involved in are for theft, drug use, or time and wage violations. But there have been some cases where it was a blatant policy and code of conduct violation - like flipping off a customer who made you mad, and throwing the customers purchases at them - still be awarded unemployment.

Doesnt say much to your case - in some instances it seems like it comes down to little more than how good the employer is at speaking to the case officer handing the case at the hearing vs. you and your plea.



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Posts: 7547 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Bob at the Beach
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quote:
Originally posted by Fredward:
“Everybody knows” won’t cut it. Was your rule violation documented? How serious was the infraction? Have others been fired for the same violation? Be prepared to disclose names of those who were given lesser punishments. Be prepared to defend any write ups. And yes, employers can contravert claims. I’ve done it successfully.


Our owner and hr has fought a lot of claims, whenever someone has been terminated for cause. Some of the reviews were done on conference call. It comes down to documentation. Have all paperwork ready. There is little tolerance for he said she said. If you have an employee hand book review it. When the economy tanked these things seemed to lean toward the former employees, (at least from what I saw) unless something was egregious.





 
Posts: 1473 | Location: Boardwalk, Va Beach | Registered: March 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Coin Sniper
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I was laid off in Michigan in 2009. Almost a year after I'd been employed again I received a similar notification. My former boss and I met awkwardly in the room before the Magistrate arrived and after an uncomfortable silence he asked if I knew why we were there. Turns out, they were as surprised by the notification as I was.

Proceedings were quick, very quick. In closing he, a bit irritated he had to give up several hours of time for seemingly no reason, asked why this happened. We were told that the state often does this to assure claims are legitimate. I'm pretty sure he was more pissed than I was.




Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys

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Posts: 38478 | Location: Above the snow line in Michigan | Registered: May 21, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Your state may be different, but in Ohio if they have to show cause and produce "write ups" for infractions, those write ups must be signed by you and you should have received a copy. An employee at one place I worked was fired, and during the appeals process the arbitrator asked to see the "repeated write ups" in the employees file. None of the ones produced were signed, including one dated after the employee was terminated roughly by about two weeks. Arbitrator allowed the claim and further stated those unsigned write ups were to be removed from the ex-employee's record.


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Your right to swing your fist stops just short of the other person's nose...
 
Posts: 360 | Location: Outinthesticks | Registered: October 08, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Equal Opportunity Mocker
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I have no idea in other states or experiences. I can only relate my own experience as a business owner.

I have fired probably a dozen or more folks from my business over the years. Generally, if I fire you, you've really screwed up or you are one (a screw up).

I've never paid a single case of an unemployment claim. Not a cent. And the reason is that I have documented the employee's shortcomings, documented that they've been counseled for it, and generally I have either their signatures on previous counseling statements OR I have other witnesses to the corrections that were issued who are willing to write a letter stating as much.

IME, if they quit there's no benefits. If they are fired without cause, they can claim. If they are fired for cause, no benefits. YMMV, I'm neither an attorney nor do I want to be.


________________________________________________

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
 
Posts: 6393 | Location: Mogadishu on the Mississippi | Registered: February 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
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Employers are dinged for Unemployment benefits by the state as a percentage of payroll.

That rate is determined by the companies payout history, the more unemployment claims paid the higher that rate.

Its in the companies interest to defend any and all claims where it feels the unemployment claim is not warranted in order to keep the rate down they pay the state as a rate increase is on ALL paid out payroll, not just equal to the payroll amount of the dismissed employee.

I'd suggest you contact a firm that specializes in unemployment challenge claims, if your former employer is well funded and makes a habit of challenging unemployment claims they probably have their process down pat.

Level the field get representation, many firms take these on contingency such as Morgan and Morgan in FL. Love or hate the guy, if your butt is on the block, you want him on your side of the table.
 
Posts: 24667 | Location: Gunshine State | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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quote:
Should I consult a lawyer

Yeah, that is overdue IMO.
 
Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Gustofer:
I was always under the impression that you were not eligible for unemployment if you were fired.


During the course of your employment, you've been paying unemployment insurance. It's your money. if you've been fired, laid off, downsized, or removed from your job for other reasons, the money is there to give you something while you're looking for other work.

If you quit, in many cases, you're also eligible for unemployment; there are many reasons one quits, and unless the employer contests it, there likely won't be any issue. Remember that one has to have worked and earned a living, and paid into unemployment, to receive it. It's also available in many locations to those who work seasonally.

In most cases, unemployment is not enough to live on, and it's designed that way to encourage the recipient to find work as soon as possible.
 
Posts: 6650 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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