After years of waiting...BITTER DISAPPOINTMENT as Toyota releases its new “Supra”
quote:
Originally posted by stickman428: The chief dude who designed the car is a fucking idiot. He fought to keep it named “Supra” and for it to have a inline 6. The emphasis was to build a car that is “fun to drive” but not necessarily the fastest car in its class. The loser thought putting in a 8 speed auto would make it “fun”. They assumed Supra fans wouldn’t want to row through gears on their own. They were afraid a $50k car with no backseat would steal sales from the FR-S/86!? What a colossally stupid move.
I really hope the Supra fails spectacularly.
Do companies do any kind of marketing surveys or studies to determine what potential Supra buyers would want in a new Supra?
In addition to fun to drive a sports car priced at 55k has to perform as well as or better than the competition. If I had to pick between fun to drive and fun to drive with superior performance I'm going with fun and superior performance. I'd be all over a 2019 Corvette at less than 55k before I'd even consider looking at the new Supra.
January 17, 2019, 10:36 AM
bigdeal
quote:
Originally posted by calugo: Do companies do any kind of marketing surveys or studies to determine what potential Supra buyers would want in a new Supra?
As we've debated time and again out here, car companies and their designers are building more and more vehicles they think we want or need, than vehicles we actually want or need. And I hate to break it to you, but the next generation of vehicle owners are far less demanding. If it has a big computer screen in the dash, gets decent fuel economy, and has been built around a 'saving the planet' model, they're all in. Hell, many of these future drivers will be looking more to Uber, Lyft, and autonomous driving cars than anything approaching fun, exciting, or functional cars of their own.
Its a new world for auto makers and we're (myself included) dinosaurs from the last generation who actually liked and were excited about cars.
----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter
January 17, 2019, 11:27 AM
Dusty78
quote:
Originally posted by stickman428: Dusty, Rougly 40% of all Toyota 86’s are sold with a manual.
This is a colossal fuck up if their intention was truly to build a “fun to drive” car. If you love your manual FR-S or 86 and want to step up to a Supra you are stuck with that shitty 8 speed.
40% of a slow selling car isn’t that exciting. The 86 isn’t exactly hot seller. Do you really think Toyota didn’t crunch the numbers on this? I would venture to think that maybe, just maybe one of the most successful automotive companies in the history of world might know more about building cars, marketing, and sales projections then you.
_______________________________________________ Use thumb-size bullets to create fist-size holes.
January 17, 2019, 11:41 AM
stickman428
They could have done much better. A Z4 is not a proper successor to the Toyota Supra. It’s kinda laughable and also somewhat sad to think such a thing.
Hell, improving over time a little closer to their minivans in regards to power would have been nice.
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The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance
January 17, 2019, 11:43 AM
chellim1
^^^ Hey, at least it has a few more horses than the mini-van?
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor
January 17, 2019, 12:54 PM
P210
quote:
40% of a slow selling car isn’t that exciting. The 86 isn’t exactly hot seller. Do you really think Toyota didn’t crunch the numbers on this? I would venture to think that maybe, just maybe one of the most successful automotive companies in the history of world might know more about building cars, marketing, and sales projections then you.
I agree. The opinions of people who enjoy reading about and discussing cars which for various reasons they aren’t actually in the market for have significantly less influence than the requirements of the ones who actually end up buying them. Does it “ruin” some potentially great cars? Definitely, but you don’t stay in business otherwise as history had proven time after time.
January 17, 2019, 01:34 PM
jhe888
quote:
Originally posted by P210:
quote:
40% of a slow selling car isn’t that exciting. The 86 isn’t exactly hot seller. Do you really think Toyota didn’t crunch the numbers on this? I would venture to think that maybe, just maybe one of the most successful automotive companies in the history of world might know more about building cars, marketing, and sales projections then you.
I agree. The opinions of people who enjoy reading about and discussing cars which for various reasons they aren’t actually in the market for have significantly less influence than the requirements of the ones who actually end up buying them. Does it “ruin” some potentially great cars? Definitely, but you don’t stay in business otherwise as history had proven time after time.
Agreed. I think Toyo knows exactly what a largish number of people will actually buy. Enthusiasts are small in number, and think that what they want is what a lot of people want. They vastly overestimate the market for their wish-list.
The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
.....never marry a woman who is mean to your waitress.
January 18, 2019, 10:01 AM
Brett B
Count me in the group that's disappointed in what they are calling the "Supra" now. It's like they didn't even try. I'm a Toyota fan but it appears they have gotten quite stingy on the R&D lately. Which is funny considering they have about $52B in cash on hand, more than some countries.
They certainly have the capability to perform more breakthrough R&D, they just so often choose not to. This can be seen in the lack of any appreciable updates to the otherwise excellent Tundra line in many years as well.
It's hard to believe that just 8 years ago Toyota was building the amazing Lexus LFA. A full carbon fiber tub made completely in house, an F1 inspired 4.8L V10 making 553HP w/9,500 redline (and weighing less than their own 3.5L V6) tied to a rear mounted electronically operated 6-speed sequential tranny. It has a 202 MPH top speed and set the Nurburgring record for any production car on street tires at 7:14 back in 2011. It was supposed to be their "Halo" car to showoff their engineering prowess, it's too bad they only made 500 of them since hardly anybody has ever even seen one.
Originally posted by Brett B: Count me in the group that's disappointed in what they are calling the "Supra" now. It's like they didn't even try. I'm a Toyota fan but it appears they have gotten quite stingy on the R&D lately. Which is funny considering they have about $52B in cash on hand, more than some countries.
They certainly have the capability to perform more breakthrough R&D, they just so often choose not to. This can be seen in the lack of any appreciable updates to the otherwise excellent Tundra line in many years as well.
It's hard to believe that just 8 years ago Toyota was building the amazing Lexus LFA. A full carbon fiber tub made completely in house, an F1 inspired 4.8L V8 making 553HP w/9,500 redline (and weighing less than their own 3.5L V6) tied to a rear mounted electronically operated 6-speed sequential tranny. It has a 202 MPH top speed and set the Nurburgring record for any production car on street tires at 7:14 back in 2011. It was supposed to be their "Halo" car to showoff their engineering prowess, it's too bad they only made 500 of them since hardly anybody has ever even seen one.
For that kind of money I could easily find a good importer and have them source a MK IV Supra TT with the sport roof/targa. It would be right hand drive but I’d save money on taxes most likely and it would only appreciate in value. For that price tag this Supra really disappoints.
I can’t wait to see how badly they ruin the MR-2 which is supposed to be next. FWD hybrid electric partnership with Mercedes? That’s where my expectations are set.
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The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance
January 18, 2019, 12:21 PM
Rob Decker
I'm not in the market for one of these, but I'll second the frustration with Toyota's R&D. Last year, instead of buying a new Tacoma or 4Runner, I bought a four-year-old RAM with features I wanted.
---------------------------------------- Death smiles at us all. Be sure you smile back.
January 18, 2019, 12:35 PM
lyman
forgive me if this has been mentioned, I have not read all 5 pages yet,
the Supra was always an offshoot of the Celica
the early one was basically a stretched (to fit the Cressida I6) Celica GT liftback
the next generation was offered in 2 levels, the L type (basically a upscale trimmed Celica GT and the performance version (again, upscaled Celica GT-S)
then the funky version that was all roundy sporty and actually fast that was based, but not a version of the mid 90's Celica,
instead of partnering with BMW, would be nice it they reinvented the Celica, (sporty 2 door GT type) and then upgraded it to a Supra
If you want a sports car there is only one true choice...
Porsche.
The 911 variants have a back seat (albeit very small) For a true performance car get a Cayman, preferably the GT4 if your pocket can handle it...best car under $100k.
------------------ Eddie
Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
January 18, 2019, 03:06 PM
MRBTX
quote:
Originally posted by Bassamatic: Hell, I like it.
I like it too; but it does make the Corvette look like a LOT of sports car for the money.
January 18, 2019, 07:27 PM
roberth
quote:
Originally posted by mark_a: Zoom Zoom!!!
LOL
January 18, 2019, 08:33 PM
Tooky13
They were just interviewing the Toyota CEO on Barrett Jackson and they're going to auction off the Supra VIN 001 tomorrow. They were showing it there and it looked pretty nice.
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. Abraham Lincoln
