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The Lone Ranger: "Tonto, we're surrounded by Indians! What'll we do?"
Tonto: "What's this 'we' business?"

"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

-Major General John Sedgwick, died 1864 by Confederate long range gunfire

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

-Major General John Sedgwick, died 1864 by Confederate long range gunfire

Thing is, that's not a misquote - he did actually say that.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

-Major General John Sedgwick, died 1864 by Confederate long range gunfire

Not the full quote but close enough.
I had a job as a kid mowing lawns and other places, one being a local cemetery and mowed around his monument/gravestone every few weeks in the summer.
He really said that. I think he was the highest ranking soldier killed in the war.

I didn't say any of that shit.


Confucius.

“Anyone who thinks a physicist like me is going to spend his time defining words like insanity is crazy.”

— Einstein

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

-Major General John Sedgwick, died 1864 by Confederate long range gunfire

Thing is, that's not a misquote - he did actually say that.

Actually, I believe he said "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist... "

Nope. not even near. Brevet Brigadier-General McMahon, on whom General Sedgwick fell when he was hit from around 800 yards by a Confederate sharpshooter probably armed with a Whitworth rifle, says quite clearly in his account - his words -

'I gave the necessary order to move the troops to the right, and as they rose to execute the movement the enemy opened a sprinkling fire, partly from sharp-shooters. As the bullets whistled by, some of the men dodged. The general said laughingly, " What! what! men, dodging this way for single bullets! What will you do when they open fire along the whole line? I am ashamed of you. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." A few seconds after, a man who had been separated from his regiment passed directly in front of the general, and at the same moment a sharp-shooter's bullet passed with a long shrill whistle very close, and the soldier, who was then just in front of the general, dodged to the ground. The general touched him gently with his foot, and said, " Why, my man, I am ashamed of you, dodging that way," and repeated the remark, " They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." The man rose and saluted and said good-naturedly, " General, I dodged a shell once, and if I hadn't, it would have taken my head off. I believe in dodging." The general laughed and replied, "All right, my man; go to your place."
For a third time the same shrill whistle, closing with a dull, heavy stroke, interrupted our talk; when, as I was about to resume, the general's face turned slowly to me, the blood spurting from his left cheek under the eye in a steady stream. He fell in my direction ; I was so close to him that my effort to support him failed, and I fell with him.'

"Don't be such a fucking bitch." -Gandhi

quote:

Originally posted by Doc H.:

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

-Major General John Sedgwick, died 1864 by Confederate long range gunfire

Thing is, that's not a misquote - he did actually say that.

Actually, I believe he said "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist... "

"Get off your horses!! Get off your horses!! They're the size of elephants!!!" Second Lieutenant Boyanhow, messenger in Sedwicwk's Command Group.


"I wharnt a shootin' at no elefant, just a man" Private Maygod Willit, Confederate rifleman at Battle of Spotsylvania Court House

If it is on the internet it must be true.

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The Quarterly Review, March, 1825.

scuse me while I kiss this guy - Jimi

Can you hear me now? - Chuck Yeager

I drank what? - Socrates

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

-Major General John Sedgwick, died 1864 by Confederate long range gunfire

They might not have been able to hit an elephant, but they sure as heck could hit a Union general astride his horse at that range.

Many counties here in Kansas are named for people who figured prominently in the Civil War. Grant, Sherman, Thomas, Sewell and others, including the county in which I reside, Sedgwick .

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:
Nope. not even near.

Totally off topic, but thanks, tac, for that discussion of one of the most misrepresented events during the Civil War. There is no reason to believe that a Confederate sniper specifically targeted and succeeded in shooting General Sedgwick in the head.
Deliberate shooting at a group of mounted men who were obviously high ranking officers? Sure.
Arrogance or misplaced bravado in refusing to take cover from bullets that were whizzing close by? Sure.

Fire enough well-aimed shots into a relatively small area and we can expect that sooner or later one will hit something worthwhile. But reasonably expecting a specific shot to hit a specific man in the head at 800 yards and would have made Chris Kyle proud? Nope.

Below is one of the best articles I’ve seen about the Whitworth rifle and that specific incident. Note that in official tests of the time, the rifle’s precision was about a 12 inch group at 800 yards. That was under ideal range conditions and that’s not good enough for anyone to guarantee a head shot. Keep in mind as well that a group size at a known distance is only part of the issue in battlefield accuracy. With the highly arched trajectories such bullets had, range estimation at long distances was also a critical factor. Even if we know the trajectory of the bullet extremely precisely, any slight error in estimating the range to the target will have a major effect on practical ability to hit a specific target.

http://americanshootingjournal...tworth-sniper-rifle/

Added re range estimation: Based on the data I could find for the Whitworth rifle and its best load, the Applied Ballistics solver for the trajectory indicates that the bullet was dropping about 15 inches in 5 yards of forward travel near 800 yards. Even allowing that the calculation is a rough estimate, that meant that if the actual range had been 795 or 805 yards rather than the exact distance of 800 that the shooter determined with an early model laser rangefinder ( ), the bullet would have been 15 inches high or low when it got to the target. What’s more, a 2 mile per hour wind would have required a windage adjustment of over a yard (~37 inches). Such a light breeze is almost too slight to feel, much less to detect and adjust for at such a distance.

These factors are usually overlooked in discussions of fantastic shots in history. The rifle might have been state of the art for the time, the shooter might have been as skilled as anyone, but small variables will still introduce a large element of luck.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
The Lone Ranger: "Tonto, we're surrounded by Indians! What'll we do?"
Tonto: "What's this 'we' business?"

When I heard it, it was "What you mean 'we', White man?"

flashguy

"These guys don't look so tough"....

George Custer tells his Aid as hundreds of Indians pour onto the field.