Every time I see that commercial on TV that starts out with “Is your car smart enough for California” I want to barf.

California will ignore their inability to set their own standards and do it anyway. Pot smoking illegal aliens can't have cars that pollute too much. They must be forced to use public transportation.

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Originally posted by Skins2881:

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Originally posted by slosig:

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Originally posted by jigray3:
I'd prefer to see California reach a point where auto manufacturers are forced to stop offering most vehicles in the state. Let them reap what they sow. To this point, the CA market has been simply too large to ignore, but it can't go on forever. Regardless of what their politicians believe, they can't legislate physics.

As a CA resident who is subject to the CA roster of not unsafe handguns, I have seen how it creates artificial scarcity and what that does to the price of anything interesting. Personally, it’s bad enough with guns. It would really suck if the same thing happened with cars and trucks.

As a liberty-minded individual hoping to escape this hellhole in three years though, the idea of all manufacturers just saying FU and not selling any cars or trucks into CA at all (not to individuals, not to government entities, not to anyone) seems like it might not be a bad thing. When the people were upset, tell them to fix their politicians. (Spaying or neutering many politicians seems like a good idea anyway. )

CA has screeched it's influence from MPG to rounds per mag. Manufactures have to make CA compliant guns plus normal state and as designed mags.

Exact same concept. Gun makers have to make CA compliant guns, and it adds cost to us in other states that supplement the purchase price for a Californian compliant gun. Or even worse you can't even buy the gun of your choice because it's not on a preapproved CA list or you can't buy that sports car you've worked your whole life for.

Don't let CA drive how many horse you can have under hood or rounds in your magazines. I am sorry you fucked your own state, but your smog and violence has nothing to do with me, don't punish me because of your bad governance or over population.

PS Double fuck your California.

Well said.

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Originally posted by synthplayer:
A friend of mine who works with "folks" from Sacramento told me that the general thought among the Sacramento tyrants is that no vehicle more than 15 years old should be allowed to operate on California roads. She told me to not be surprised when I see new regulations that make it difficult to register my vehicles in the future if and when they are 15 years old or older. Never-mind that I maintain all of my vehicles with great care and that they always pass the emissions tests with flying colors. They're more than 15 years old - time for me to saddle myself with debt in order to obtain newer vehicles.

Gosh I hate Leftists. I see them as petty tyrants.

Why doesn't Cal. just outlaw all cars. Everyone must take some form of public transportation crap. Then you'd have one more good reason to move out of that liberal zoo.

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Gosh I hate Leftists. I see them as petty tyrants.

Nothing petty about them. They're full on tyrants.

Leftists are tyrants, particularily in California. However as a cyclist, I am eternally grateful for emission standards. They might be overdone in Cali, but overall they have been a great boon to people who live in or near cities, or who road bike on country roads.

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Originally posted by c1steve:
Leftists are tyrants, particularily in California. However as a cyclist, I am eternally grateful for emission standards. They might be overdone in Cali, but overall they have been a great boon to people who live in or near cities, or who road bike on country roads.

There was a time when air pollution was a problem in parts of the U.S. and an argument could be made that pollution standards were needed. But, with the implementation of tighter governmental air quality and emission standards air quality, except in isolated locations and circumstances, the issue has largely been resolved. Today's clean burning gasoline and diesel powered vehicles produce FAR less emissions than those of the '60s, '70s, '80s and even more recently, to say nothing of the clean burning coal-fired power plants and their modern air scrubbers .

I'm not suggesting that we eliminate all emission standards, but there comes a point of diminishing returns and the costs involved with implementing ever-tightening emission standards produce miniscule improvements in air quality while having major impacts on car manufacturers, car dealerships. automotive technicians, and consumers...not to mention allowing for ever increasing government and costs.

The problem isn't emmission, it's CA using it's government to influence the future of the oil gas and electric industries through regulation of vehicle standards.

CA wants to eliminate fossil fuels, and in order to do it they are legislating new rules, new fuel economy rules, fuel type, the manufacturing companies look at the total sales in CA and are forced to streamline products.

Therefore CA could eliminate diesel trucks from the roads and by fiat do the same to the rest of the USA even though federal law or other states don't have those rules.

They are in effect controlling USA environmental policy as a state...

The EPA is posed to remove CA waiver, it's a good thing, CA shouldn't have that kind of power....

While reports are that the emissions restrictions add between 2k-5k per large truck or SUV, don't hold your breath that auto companies would immediately just chop prices. The expense of the system compliance going away will create a 2k-5k profit bubble that the uninformed consumer has already been conditioned to pay if they want a new car. My prediction is the auto companies will act like politicians and see a pot of money up for grabs......good luck seeing prices go down!

Prices may not go down or even increase any slower, but after my last experience with emissions equipment failure making my truck unusable, I’ll be happy if they just take that crap off.

Seems like we want it both ways. Tell the Federal Gov to buzz of when whatever they are doing is not in the Constitution. We use the State's Rights argument.

But then the Federal Gov. does something we agree with, and it's the State itself that doesn't have the right.

Politics is. . . well, inconsistent.

the problem is that its not simply a state right - its affecting people outside the state and as a citizen of Arizona I don't want to have to put up with, or pay for the crap coming from California

California's state right ends where it interferes with mine

[Note-hyperlinks and comments at linked article]

Colorado auto dealers laud Trump rollback of California emissions waiver

September 19, 2019 By Sherrie Peif

DENVER — The president of the Colorado Automobile Dealers Association (CADA) says the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) rollback of California’s waiver from federal clean air rules is good news for car manufacturers.

“Industry-wide, whether it’s automakers or auto dealers, historically, we’ve always supported a single national standard on fuel efficiency for cost efficiency,” said Tim Jackson.

Jackson’s comments were in response to President Donald Trump’s decision Wednesday to rescind decades of waivers granted to California to set its own automobile emissions standards. Many of those standards — which tend to be stricter than federal EPA standards — have been adopted over the years by other states in preference to the EPA regulations.

Colorado is one of the most recent states to sign onto those regulations that include mandates for minimum sales requirements on both low emissions vehicles (LEV) and zero emissions vehicles (ZEV) over the next 4-5 years.

Jackson said requiring all states to follow one set of rules makes auto manufacturing much more affordable and effective.

“We think this is a very important action on the part of the EPA at the federal level to end the California cartel on fuel economy standards,” Jackson said. “In doing so, it wipes out the ability for the current Colorado administration to needlessly increase the cost of new cars in Colorado.”

But the fight may not be over as both Gov. Jared Polis and Attorney General Phil Weiser have vowed to join other states in fighting the decision.

California was granted an initial waiver in the 1970s under the federal Clean Air Act because they already had standards in place that exceeded those of the EPA. They have received several dozen waivers over the years.

While proponents of California’s waivers say it’s a state’s right, others — including Jackson — say California should not be setting regulations for other states, only the federal government has the power to do that.

“What I don’t think that was anticipated was that other states would adopt onto that same waiver,” Jackson said. “Just the mindset at the time they granted it, they thought they were granting it to California.”

However, Jackson said, the issue changed significantly when California adopted yet another set of standards in a deal with four specific auto manufacturers earlier this summer. The standards for Volkswagen, BMW, Ford and Honda, would be more stringent than new relaxed federal standards expected to be released by the EPA soon, but also less stringent than California’s existing standard.

“So suddenly, now (California) is granting permission to go something in between,” Jackson said. “So, whether you’re for California having its own set of standards or not, all agree, there isn’t a third standard. So, it appears they are setting their own laws and not adhering to their own standards.”

Jackson said theoretically the LEV and ZEV standards that Colorado adopted will no longer be enforceable and revert to federal standards under the rollback.

“Conceptionally, this pulled the rug out from under not only California but the other 10 states that have adopted ZEV and 13 states that have adopted the LEV standards,” Jackson said. “But we all know what will happen practically. They are going to sue so that they can have the separate standard.”

Jackson said he expects the higher standards will be enforced in states where they’ve been adopted while the lawsuit works its way through the courts. That could take 3-5 years. For Colorado, however, where the new LEV and ZEV standards don’t take effect until 2022 and 2023, respectively, there could be a legal decision by then.

Former Gov. John Hickenlooper’s Tweeted out it was shameful that Trump would “actively undo the critical progress we’ve made,” saying “even the auto industry has embraced” the new regulations.

Jackson said that statement is just false.

“It’s a matter of record,” Jackson said. “(The auto industry) was a filed party in opposition to LEV.”

Hickenlooper was responsible for the LEV mandate just before leaving office in 2018.

Colorado’s Freedom to Drive Coalition, of which CADA is a member, said in a news release that it supports the EPA’s decision because it allows “consumer demand to steer the future of transportation, instead of California’s Air Board.”

“A single national emissions standard will make vehicles more affordable for all Coloradans and allow auto manufacturers to focus on safety features that consumers most want in their family vehicles,” said the Coalition’s Public Affairs Director Sara G. Almerri. “Without this waiver, federal law will prevent Colorado from penalizing manufacturers who meet the federal standard, but not the former California standard. This is welcome news for Colorado and should serve as a shot of adrenaline for the state’s economy.”

If California wants to continue holding the superior attitude over “cleaner” cars, then by all means let them do so by installing factory “upgrades” on their own dime. He’ll, I’m sure automakers would happily custom order them as long as they pay the premium. I’m equally sure that the Commiefornia government would be happy to force its citizenry to do so. Anything that costs those folks more money and reason to hate state politics.