I built a craps table a couple of years ago and have been testing a variety of betting strategies and dice control methods.
I’ve watched countless YouTube vids on the subject and played many hundreds maybe thousands of games.
I like the idea of using dice control where you endeavor to grip, swing, release and land the dice in the same spot repeatedly, much like developing a golf swing.
Still can’t say that anything has made much difference compared to random play,
But the quest continues.
What’s you game?
Do you have a betting strategy?
Dice control, pitch n pray?

Having lived in Vegas for 10 years I suspect those big and opulent casino buildings are built because they have a better understanding of probabilities and statistics.

Definitely!
The house always has the edge, no matter how you play.
I guess my question is can the house edge be shaved a bit by using dice setting techniques and betting strategies.

Back a million years ago when I did travel to destinations where casinos existed I enjoyed giving money to the casino as slowly as possible. (I really enjoy people watching and casinos offer excellent people watching but I also see the games as a fun diversion so I allot myself a small amount of money to lose as slowly as I can. When the money is gone, I stop playing.)

To that end I play craps and blackjack exclusively. Passline, playing 6&8, occasionally "playing with the house" using the "Don't" are my craps slow rolls.

In blackjack I play the standard strategy.

I also look for the lowest minimum tables to play.

There is no strategy to decrease your odds of losing, if some method existed someone would have figured it out by now and if they did the Casinos would ban it. Casinos exist and are profitable because the deck is stacked heavily in their favor not yours no matter what strategy you employ. Go to have fun and occasionally you might win but don't go thinking there's a way to beat the house because you'll always be disappointed.

If you do consistently win using any kind of "strategy," the casinos will get wise to it and give you the boot. They used to take you out behind the building and beat the shit out of you.

Two bets will give nearly even odds. Something like 50.3/49.7 to the house. You only enter the game when a point is not set. On the set roll (or come out), the player actually has better odds than the house. Then you only bet the pass line, buying odds. The best is a 2$ table with 10x odds. All other bets heavily favor the house.

If you play with that strategy, you should theoretically be able to play without loosing much. With a little luck, you can actually win a little. Trying to be creative about how you roll the dice will get the attention of the casino.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Two bets will give nearly even odds. Something like 50.3/49.7 to the house. You only enter the game when a point is not set. On the set roll (or come out), the player actually has better odds than the house. Then you only bet the pass line, buying odds. The best is a 2$ table with 10x odds. All other bets heavily favor the house.

If you play with that strategy, you should theoretically be able to play without loosing much. With a little luck, you can actually win a little. Trying to be creative about how you roll the dice will get the attention of the casino.

Yeah, sigcrazy7 plays the recommended way that lessens the house advantage. But craps is a zero-sum game: i.e., you will lose IF you don't walk away. BUT: Holy Shit!: There is nothing more exciting (in a casino) than a hot craps table! The stickman's banter, the exhortations of the players, the level of excitement when a player holds the dice forever. That is an experience you will remember.

quote:

Originally posted by cne32507:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Two bets will give nearly even odds. Something like 50.3/49.7 to the house. You only enter the game when a point is not set. On the set roll (or come out), the player actually has better odds than the house. Then you only bet the pass line, buying odds. The best is a 2$ table with 10x odds. All other bets heavily favor the house.

If you play with that strategy, you should theoretically be able to play without loosing much. With a little luck, you can actually win a little. Trying to be creative about how you roll the dice will get the attention of the casino.

Yeah, sigcrazy7 plays the recommended way that lessens the house advantage. But craps is a zero-sum game: i.e., you will lose IF you don't walk away. BUT: Holy Shit!: There is nothing more exciting (in a casino) than a hot craps table! The stickman's banter, the exhortations of the players, the level of excitement when a player holds the dice forever. That is an experience you will remember.

Not to mention if you’re the one rolling hot and the other players are throwing you tips. It can be a lot of fun.

quote:

Originally posted by cne32507:

Yeah, sigcrazy7 plays the recommended way that lessens the house advantage. But craps is a zero-sum game: i.e., you will lose IF you don't walk away. BUT: Holy Shit!: There is nothing more exciting (in a casino) than a hot craps table! The stickman's banter, the exhortations of the players, the level of excitement when a player holds the dice forever. That is an experience you will remember.

Pretty much this. I love throwing dice. My strategy unrelated to betting, is to have the EXACT amount of cash i'm prepared to lose and once that's gone, I'm off the table.

With respect to betting, I take my odds, play a few numbers and do my best to enjoy the fireworks on the table.

Thanks for the comments guys, as I said early in the thread, the house always has the edge no matter how you play.
But casinos don't care how you set the dice as long as you do it quickly so as not to slow the game(at least not in any casino where I've played). That alone makes it pretty clear that they don't consider dice setting much of a threat.
On the other hand, I have seen many, many dice setters that manage to keep the dice longer than other shooters at the table, so I believe there is something yo it....I just can't do it!
one32507 said it best:

quote:

BUT: Holy Shit!: There is nothing more exciting (in a casino) than a hot craps table! The stickman's banter, the exhortations of the players, the level of excitement when a player holds the dice forever. That is an experience you will remember.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Two bets will give nearly even odds. Something like 50.3/49.7 to the house. You only enter the game when a point is not set. On the set roll (or come out), the player actually has better odds than the house. Then you only bet the pass line, buying odds. The best is a 2$ table with 10x odds. All other bets heavily favor the house.

If you play with that strategy, you should theoretically be able to play without loosing much. With a little luck, you can actually win a little. Trying to be creative about how you roll the dice will get the attention of the casino.

This. There is another point to consider. The house is available for you to play, whenever you want. You get to control when you start and stop playing. Which means, if you are ahead you can walk away with the house money. If one doesn't get greedy, you can do well.

A casino table will have an end wall with rows of pyramid shaped pieces protruding from the wall. You must throw the dice against this wall each roll. It makes no difference how you set the dice and swing your hand or whatever. You will never be able to consistently control how the dice fall after hitting a random surface.

You must consider every roll of the dice as a completely random independent events as the starting point of your strategy. From there any book on the game can advise you about the odds of each type of bet you can make.

When I was in my twenties, I would go to the casinos with my father. We played to win and not just entertain ourselves. We usually played the don't pass or don't come side of the table, establish a few numbers, then lay maximum odds. When trying to establish a number, I would hedge the bet by placing an appropriate bet on eleven. Winning comes in spurts and we tried to capitalize on them and got out quickly when the dice went cold.

Overall, we won more than we lost. Sometimes, one of us hit our loss limit and would just sit out the session. We would share our winnings if the other person lost.

In one casino down in Curacao, the rules allowed you to move your bet from the pass line to the don't pass line if you did not like the number that was established. We couldn't believe it was allowed. Not wanting to draw attention to ourselves, we won a bit and then had a really nice dinner with the winnings.

I quit going to the casinos because it was too stressful and mentally draining. You have to be very disciplined to grind out any winnings and it wasn't really fun. I also couldn't stand the cigarette smoke.

As TXJIM sez, ya gotta bounce 'em off da wall. My wife was watching a lively table of young people one night. When a certain girl had her turn, the stick man slipped a diamond ring in with the dice. Not from the stick-man though. As to mechanics holding the dice more than amateurs, my sister-in-law once held them for what seemed like 15-30 minutes. She is forever known as "Shirley The Shooter". I once saw two venture-capitalist types hit a table I was passing time on. Slapped down $10K cash on the "Don't Come" line. Box-man popped the bands and spread the C notes across the table. He never blinked. I was playing $6 six & eights and rolling the dice over $30K cash! NOW WE'RE GAMBLING! Sometimes it's fun to play craps; even if you lose.

I learned some expensive lessons at the craps tables. Helped me to develop my own personal way that I play. It always really jacked me that you are pressing, pushing, money on the table, and BAM! That ugly 7 takes everything you have in play.

I finally decided to play the Don’t Come cycle exclusively, and I will try to explain why. First, I do not play the Don’t Pass line, because I don’t want to be playing against the table. I wait until the point is established, and then I put my bet in the Don’t Come box. As long as a 7/11 is not the next roll, my bet moves to a “don’t” bet, basically establishing my own “don’t pass” cycle that has nothing to do with the table point cycle.

I repeat this process twice more, looking to get behind two or three different point numbers. So now, when a 7 hits the table, I get paid on all of my DC bets, instead of getting wiped.

My risk is mainly avoiding the shooter sevening out or rolling 11 while I am in the DC box trying to get up on the numbers. Once I get through each of those rolls, the odds swing heavy in my favor. 6/8 are 8% my edge, 5/9 are 20% my edge, and 4/10 are 33% my edge. If I have a wager in the DC box and 2/3 are rolled, I get paid. It’s a mirror of a pass line bet.

What is really epic is when the shooter establishes his point, I then repeat my DC wager cycles and can get up behind 3 numbers, he hits his point, and then throws a 7 on his next come out roll. All pass line bets get paid, and all my DC. bets become winners with that come out 7, so I get stacked too.

I believe that the technique that the OP and some other posters are alluding to is trying to tumble the dice in a 'straight line' so that only eight of the faces are used to make combinations rather than all twelve faces. That idea is undoubtedly as ancient as the dice.

IMO, the method to 'gamble' would be to observe and track the various probabilistic events. Put a bet on the most overdue event so long as the chance of a near future hit is reasonable. The difficulty is in increasing the stake with successive misses. Say...

$5, $10, $20, $40, $80, $160, $320, $640, $1,280, ad infinitum. I imagine that the casinos have this idea figured out and put an upper limit on the bet to stop the doubling. Probably boring as hell standing there for... 10 minutes? 30 minutes? An hour? counting and waiting for probability to exceed the expectation 1.0. And it requires other people to keep the statistics moving in between your own infrequent wagers.

I talked with an old crap player who had a spot on the rail but didn't play. I asked him why. He replied that he was patiently waiting for someone to make a run and then join in. A run, according, to him, was 3 made points by a shooter. Come-out 7's don't count. Good plan, if you have the patience. It may not happen at all. But if it does...

WE'RE GAMBLING NOW! WHERE'S SHIRLEY THE SHOOTER?