quote:

Originally posted by kidcop:

But hey, personal freedom.

Yeah, now you're riding the trolley!

See, some folks like to do mildly harmful things, in moderation, because it feels good. I like to have a drink, when I'm out in the woods or around the firepit I'll have a cigar, or cigarette, with it. And that's my choice, some people might choose not to, some people might choose something else, a boot, for example.

Just so long as you're not forcing me into it, especially with government guns, I don't really care what you do.

As someone who smoked for decades, had cancer, I would never, ever encourage anyone to use tobacco.

That said, we make our own decisions in life, some good, some bad.I made a bad decision to smoke, but it wasn't like I didn't know the risks.

Government encroaching in our lives happens more often every day. What is next for New Zealanders? What is next for Americans ?

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
You never answered my question about using heroin if it was legal? Would you? You imply that everybody else would, because … why?

Of course I wouldn't and I never implied anything of the sort. Every heroin, meth, pill or any other drug addict I have ever dealt with has been a miserable wretch. Both as a cop and having had a family member who was an addict, and as a smoker who is not currently smoking, I've seen firsthand the damage done, to paraphrase Neil Young.

I wonder how many people opposed to this measure, designed to make it more difficult for young people to get tobacco products, think it would be a good thing to take their 15 year old nephew out to the campfire and introduce them to the "pleasure" of a cigar, pipe, cigarette or dip. You're just helping them make a personal decision, right?

Reading this thread has me torn a bit. I’m against government control. But I’m fine with heroin being illegal.

Tobacco has no beneficial effect. Heroin gets you high. Kills you but gets you high. Tobacco doesn’t provide any enjoyment prior to addiction. You actually struggle through its use until the addiction tricks you into thinking you enjoy it. I’d be fine if it didn’t exist but I’m not sure it’s government’s job.

I am not a fan of tobacco products these days. I dipped Skoal for 13 years (age’s 18-31) and it was a bastard to quit 16 years ago. I will actively discourage my children from ever using it regularly.

That said, the “I’m not sure its the government’s job” part should be the reason any libertine minded person is creeped out by the proposed NZ law. Those people have a love affair with an ever more meddling nanny state and it is cringy as hell to watch the personal freedoms erode.

quote:

Originally posted by kidcop:

a fiber optic camera run through your penis, up your urethra and into your bladder every several months without benefit of anesthetics

Yeah, that is a lot of fun. I had that once, when the doc wanted to check my bladder, looking for some problem that might have been associated with radiation treatment for prostate cancer.

I did not enjoy that experience.

“Hi, we are from the government and we’re here to help you.“

LOL

I’ve met these idiots; I was a hired gun to many government agencies. They can’t manage their way out of a wet paper bag.

Just a quick reminder, but the phrase "there oughta be a law!" is just a polite way of saying you're ok with the police killing you for something. So be careful how much power you give The Man.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

name one plant that has killed more people than tobacco…….

Sugarcane.

Ok, name two

But good point, if they are going to ban tobacco for health reasons why not sugar cane? In the US we have bans on weed, peyote, mescaline, etc….all naturally occurring plants that are determined to be “bad”. It seems some are comfortable prohibiting some things and up in arms about other things being banned. It’s interesting seeing where folks draw the line only to stand on one side of it shouting about personal freedom.

Ah, smoking is not good for you, and it's been deemed that anything not good for you is bad; hence, illegal. Alcohol, caffeine, contact sports, meat...

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

name one plant that has killed more people than tobacco…….

Sugarcane.

Ok, name two

But good point, if they are going to ban tobacco for health reasons why not sugar cane?

If you want to get rid of sugar you’re going to have to ban a lot more than sugar cane.

E.g., Britain produces about half its sugar domestically from beets, other places make sugar from various types of fruit (palm fruit lots of places), etc.

When you're a small and isolated country, enacting such laws tend to creep into law maker's heads. Usually big swings to one direction or, the other socially, when it comes to allowances of personal responsibly and the state's ability to enforce it.

New Zealand, like Germany, has shifted the Overton Window towards a Leftist/Green party-type discourse for all political discussions, if its not saving the planet, its overseeing what the public is allowed to do and how to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:
Reading this thread has me torn a bit. I’m against government control. But I’m fine with heroin being illegal.

Tobacco has no beneficial effect. Heroin gets you high. Kills you but gets you high. Tobacco doesn’t provide any enjoyment prior to addiction. You actually struggle through its use until the addiction tricks you into thinking you enjoy it. I’d be fine if it didn’t exist but I’m not sure it’s government’s job.

This is where I'm at. I can't make a stand for or against. The reality is if there were no cigarettes, there'd be 70%+ less lung cancer. For drugs at least you can claim it gets you fucked up.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

name one plant that has killed more people than tobacco…….

Sugarcane.

Ok, name two

But good point, if they are going to ban tobacco for health reasons why not sugar cane?

If you want to get rid of sugar you’re going to have to ban a lot more than sugar cane.

E.g., Britain produces about half its sugar domestically from beets, other places make sugar from various types of fruit (palm fruit lots of places), etc.

I don’t want to ban anything, quite the opposite. I am simply making the observation that there is little logical consistency when people draw the line on what they are willing to see banned and what constitutes an affront to liberty.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

name one plant that has killed more people than tobacco…….

Sugarcane.

Ok, name two

But good point, if they are going to ban tobacco for health reasons why not sugar cane?

If you want to get rid of sugar you’re going to have to ban a lot more than sugar cane.

E.g., Britain produces about half its sugar domestically from beets, other places make sugar from various types of fruit (palm fruit lots of places), etc.

I don’t want to ban anything, quite the opposite. I am simply making the observation that there is little logical consistency when people draw the line on what they are willing to see banned and what constitutes an affront to liberty.

I get it, I am in a similar boat.

So what exactly is the law? If you were born before 2008, you can still buy tobacco but not after? So there will still be tobacco sold in stores? If it's still sold anywhere legally in the country, how are they going to stop young people from getting it if they want it exactly?

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
So what exactly is the law? If you were born before 2008, you can still buy tobacco but not after? So there will still be tobacco sold in stores? If it's still sold anywhere legally in the country, how are they going to stop young people from getting it if they want it exactly?

Magic.

And scumbag sociopaths with submachine guns.

It's for The Greater Good though, so it's OK!

Hands on the vertical, feet on the horizontal. Once you are in the boat don’t eat or drink.

It’s gonna get loud. When the ramp drops go for the high ground. Establish a base of fire. Be selective. Get the boys on the beach. Remember your lateral limits. Conserve ammo.

Are we planning a landing to liberate Aus/NZ? I’m in.

I've known a couple Kiwis over the years, both a ton of fun to hang out with. One very much liked his Mary Jane.

About fifteen or twenty years ago I read an article about New Zealand passing a law that made it illegal for citizens to criticize the government, is when I started to question just what their mindset was, in the lands down under.

Like many, I struggle to find the line between individual liberty, safety, and the common good , but wherever it is, I don't believe it starts with a government banning a product like tobacco...or forcing its citizens to buy a health related product like health insurance.

New Zealand prime minister and the Ministry of Truth



https://rumble.com/vjxifw-new-...of-truth-leader.html

Tyranny comes in all forms.

This is just another form.

Perhaps the worst kind as it is presented as benevolence.