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Somewhat Gun Related Booby Trap On Safe

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March 28, 2019, 08:34 PM
a1abdj
Somewhat Gun Related Booby Trap On Safe
I have dealt with my fair share of "tear gas" vials on safes, but have never encountered one of these demons until today.

Although never confirmed in the wild, Lake Erie has patents on these devices that included mustard gas and other potentially deadly agents. I haven't identified what is inside of this nasty little bugger, but as you can see it is activated with a 32 S&W cartridge.










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www.zykansafe.com
March 28, 2019, 08:37 PM
sigfreund
How old is that system?



► 6.0/94.0

To operate serious weapons in a serious manner.
March 28, 2019, 08:39 PM
comet24
That's very interesting. Any other info on those systems.


_____________________________________

Because in the end, you won’t remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn. Climb that goddamn mountain. Jack Kerouac
March 28, 2019, 08:44 PM
tatortodd
quote:
that included mustard gas and other potentially deadly agents
Wow! Be careful!

Also, I'm glad that I don't own anything valuable enough that I willing to have a WMD in my house to protect it.


Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
March 28, 2019, 08:46 PM
radioman
Eek
Wow, I can't even imagine... Eek


.
March 28, 2019, 08:47 PM
a1abdj
quote:
How old is that system?


Hard to say with 100% certainty. Lake Erie has patents for these types of devices going back into the 1920s. Don't know if the device was new when installed, old stock, or even transferred from another safe.

Maybe somebody would know more about that cartridge, but a quick Google search showed that Peters sold to Remington in 1934. Don't know if Remington continued to use the Peters name on their brass or not.


________________________



www.zykansafe.com
March 28, 2019, 09:18 PM
YooperSigs
I would guess it is tear gas. When we were moving our Police Dept to a new building, we found a 37mm tear gas gun kit that had Lake Erie Tear gas cartridges. They were from the late 40s, IIRC. we had them destroyed.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
March 28, 2019, 09:25 PM
Sigmund
quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs:

I would guess it is tear gas...


I agree. I'm certain those devices used tear gas, NEVER mustard. This is the best I could find after a quick search:

Leading American tear-gas manufacturers, including the Lake Erie Chemical Company founded by World War I veteran Lieutenant Colonel Byron “Biff” Goss, became deeply embroiled in the repression of political struggles. Sales representatives buddied up with business owners and local police forces. They followed news headlines of labor disputes and traveled to high-conflict areas, selling their products domestically and to countries such as Argentina, Bolivia, and Cuba. A Senate subcommittee investigation into industrial-munitions sales found that between 1933 and 1937, more than $1.25 million (about $21 million today) worth of “tear and sickening gas” had been purchased in the U.S. “chiefly during or in anticipation of strikes.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/in...-of-tear-gas/378632/
March 28, 2019, 09:42 PM
a1abdj
I'm sure whatever it is is an irritant to the eyes and lungs.

Generally the tear gas we see is a liquid inside of glass vials in a device that is vented to the safe. If this device has liquid in it it's completely full as I can't feel any sloshing around, and the holder is not vented in any fashion.

I suspect it is some sort of dry agent that is ignited.


________________________



www.zykansafe.com
March 29, 2019, 02:15 AM
KevinCW
So uh... hypothetically speaking of course, where would a fellow inquire about obtaining such a device....




Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
March 29, 2019, 06:49 AM
M-11
Contact the Lake Erie Cemical Co. @ BR549. May have to use the DeLorean to pick it up.


"Common sense is wisdom with its sleeves rolled up." -Kyle Farnsworth
"Freedom of Speech does not guarantee freedom from consequences." -Mike Rowe
"Democracies aren't overthrown, they're given away." -George Lucas
March 29, 2019, 07:05 AM
Longbow_06
I wouldn't think it would be that hard to reproduce, with an off the shelf Mace type spray.
Not sure how legal it would be though, lol. I know Mace is legal to use.
March 29, 2019, 07:07 AM
rexles
quote:
Originally posted by M-11:
Contact the Lake Erie Cemical Co. @ BR549. May have to use the DeLorean to pick it up.


Nope. That's the wrong number BR549 was Jr Samples used car sales>


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"Our duty is to serve the mission, and if we're not doing that, then we have no right to call what we do service" Marcus Luttrell
March 29, 2019, 07:26 AM
mrvmax
quote:
Originally posted by KevinCW:
So uh... hypothetically speaking of course, where would a fellow inquire about obtaining such a device....

This is not for a safe but could be used in the room your safe is in.https://www.burglarbomb.com
March 29, 2019, 07:30 AM
mrvmax
So how do you dispose of that once you remove it? Not knowing what it is would be a problem especially when you consider it could be mustard gas.
March 29, 2019, 08:33 AM
Eponym
quote:
Originally posted by mrvmax:
This is not for a safe but could be used in the room your safe is in https://www.burglarbomb.com

March 29, 2019, 08:44 AM
a1abdj
quote:
So how do you dispose of that once you remove it?


Most of these types of devices have a liquid in glass vials that are designed to break. In the past I have waited until I had several saved up, dug a small hole in a field, placed them within the hole, and then smashed them as I covered them with wet dirt.

This particular unit is fairly uncommon. Even among those of us who work with this stuff there's not a lot known about them. We're going to spend some time trying to figure it out, hopefully get it neutralized, and then determine exactly what's in it. If it ends up being something nastier than normal run of the mill tear gas vials it would be good to spread that knowledge for others who may encounter one in the future.


________________________



www.zykansafe.com
March 29, 2019, 09:45 AM
striker1
These devices always give me the willies when working on vault and safe doors that have them.

I haven't seen it myself, but we have a customer nearby that allegedly has a very old Diebold door with phosgene vials in it. I personally doubt it's that.


RB

Cancer fighter (Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma) since 2009, now fighting Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma.


March 29, 2019, 10:33 AM
a1abdj
quote:
we have a customer nearby that allegedly has a very old Diebold door with phosgene vials in it



Phosgene and Mustard Gas were two chemicals that were said to have been used (more than rumor), but have never been verified to have actually existed among the public.

Generally a glass vial with liquid will end up being Chloropicrin. I have broken one of these accidentally and can assure you that it is not something you want to do, especially if you are in an enclosed area.


________________________



www.zykansafe.com
March 29, 2019, 02:19 PM
RC
So
The glass vial filled ones you normally find in a safe

Are they very potent?

If you had one in your safe and it was set off by a bad guy could you be in trouble for setting a trap?

I have seen the burglar bomb advertised before but I can only imagine the grief if my wife set it off by accident.


RC