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Originally posted by c1steve:

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Originally posted by Bytes:Oh, you do realize the Mountain Meadow Massacre happened well over a century ago (1850s), don't you? There's been a little water flow under the bridge since that happened. Do you think there's a possibility of renegade LDS members killing a bunch of people from Arkansas traveling in a wagon train across Utah would be in grave danger?

What I am saying is the down deep, LDS persons appear to be no better nor worse than anyone else. There are good ones and bad ones. However whenever religious group person come to my door, I am more suspicious of organized religion types than the common person. Personally, I grew up in the catholic religion. Having seen various facets of that religion including it's priests, I would rank them slighly lower than LDS people.

I think the point of religion is to provide an active instruction to help the individual refine himself. Whether it works or not is up to the individual. That is a failing or success of the person, not the religion nor the theology. Some members of the Catholic faith are golden. Others are scum. Some members of the LDS faith are golden. Others are scum. The lessons and principles based in Christian perspective didn't take with some. That is not to say it didn't take with all of them. I think it's a distortion to associate all members of a religion with the members for whom the theology didn't take or hasn't yet.

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Originally posted by darthfuster:
I think the point of religion is to provide an active instruction to help the individual refine himself. Whether it works or not is up to the individual. That is a failing or success of the person, not the religion nor the theology. Some members of the Catholic faith are golden. Others are scum. Some members of the LDS faith are golden. Others are scum. The lessons and principles based in Christian perspective didn't take with some. That is not to say it didn't take with all of them. I think it's a distortion to associate all members of a religion with the members for whom the theology didn't take or hasn't yet.

Well said.



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Originally posted by c1steve:

What about owning a business in a mostly Mormon town? I have not done it, but I know people who have lived in towns in Idaho that were predominantly Mormon. I have universally been told that the LDS members will not shop at your store or business, and you will eventually go bankrupt. Where are the Christian values in this? Any LDS persons on this forum who will deny this? Are they encouraged to do business with LDS members over others? Well, true or false?

False.

Sounds good in print, but it's not true.

We live next door to a family that seems to consist of the parents and about eight younger people - it's hard to tell because they are scadding all over the place on their missionary work. They are the among the finest, kindest, open-handed people you could wish to meet, and more to the point, they keep their religious views to themselves. It makes giving them stuff difficult at times - no candies, that kind of thing [and most importatn on MY house, no coffee], but the other good thing is that they keep the itinerant Elders away from our door.

We, in turn, keep the JWs away from them.

The southern baptist has a huge crew that does this too. They have mobile showers and kitchens that serve thousands.

When I moved to our home in Utah a young couple stopped by, first thing he said was "Well, now the town is 99% Mormon". Almost true! In 13 years I've seen them do a lot of good and I've also seen the bad side of a religion with a disdain for outsiders.

I think the way they step up to help is commendable but as others have said, they're not the only ones that do.

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Originally posted by UTsig:
I think the way they step up to help is commendable but as others have said, they're not the only ones that do.

No shit, other people volunteer?! Well, which ones showed up at the OP's parent's home?

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Originally posted by UTsig:
In 13 years I've seen them do a lot of good and I've also seen the bad side of a religion with a disdain for outsiders.

Just curious. If Mormons have such as distain for outsiders, why do they spend so much time and effort attempting to get outsiders to be insiders?

Is it more likely that being insular towards outsiders is more related to the small town than it is towards the religion? Perhaps a pioneer town that was settled by any other affiliation, where many families go back many generations, would also give you a feeling of exclusion when you move there. It is most likely that what you are identifying is part of the human condition. The suspicion for outsiders is a social evolution that protected your tribe from marauders and interlopers for the last 35,000 years or so, and still persists in our psyche to this day. Sharing the predominate religion of the majority will automatically provide a level of propinquity, which will hasten your acceptance into the local community. Once again, not a Mormon thing, but a human thing.

Contrary to what many seem to believe sometimes, Mormons are human beings, and are subject to the same inclinations as the rest of the species.

First off, recruitment is number one on their minds. When we moved here we were invited to numerous, local gatherings, when we made it clear we had no interest in joining the church those invitations stopped. My best friend in the neighborhood is a very well respected member of the church, can't stand what goes on behind outsiders backs.

I've talked to Mormons who have been treated this way because they were from CA, not Utah stock. You live in Utah, you don't think it happens?

How about non-LDS children. Everything's fine at school but when an LDS child has birthday party you're not invited! A friends son had terrible problems adjusting to it, a teenager, he succumbed from pressure and joined. His folks are OK with it but didn't like the constant recruiting from his "friends".

The population is slowly mixing and some changes will come but it will be very slow to happen in Southern Utah.

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Originally posted by UTsig:
I've talked to Mormons who have been treated this way because they were from CA, not Utah stock. You live in Utah, you don't think it happens?

That statement doesn't seem in harmony with your earlier assertion.

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I've also seen the bad side of a religion with a disdain for outsiders.

If Mormons from CA are treated as outsiders, then clearly it isn't the religion, but the small town, southern Utah culture. Which is my point in the earlier post. I moved to Utah from Virginia, but I live on the Wasatch Front in a larger, but over 75% LDS town (Spanish Fork). I have never been treated as an outsider here.

I think there is a different culture down here. There is a very deep rooted "pioneer" contingent. I'm just pointing out the facts about how some feel, YMMV.

Washington County is an island in Utah, still run by the "Good Ol' Boys", follow the doings in St George, its largest city.

Personally, I could care less, we have friends in all sectors, including FLDS. Just don't ask to marry there daughters.