quote:

(you didn't lock the door. OK, you locked the door, but you did not have "Ring" installed. OK, you had the door locked and Ring installed, but you did not have a security alarm. OK, You locked the door, had Ring, and a security system, but you did not have your items secured in a safe. OK, You locked the door, had Ring, a security system, and your items secured in a safe, but....) See, it never ends that the person violated is the "real reason" the thieve thieved...

My daughter had a known meth head try to kick down her back door. The alarm went off, she was on 911 and the police were coming. She tells the punk she had a dog and a gun. The door opens and the meth head sees a very angry woman with a gun and a dog that really wants to bite him. He ran, she released the dog, which took him off the back fence.
The police asked why he chose her house? “Because she lived alone and had a small dog. Bad choice.

quote:

Originally posted by dsiets:

You sure that that's enough? I was expecting crucifixion.
The article states, "The woman went into a grocery store about 15 feet (5 yards) from the car Saturday." I'm not sure that fits the description except where criminals are around and I don't think that's factored into this law.


Now, what are we going to award the kidnapper w/?

I simply cited a law available. You asked.

quote:

You sure that that's enough? I was expecting crucifixion.
The article states, "The woman went into a grocery store about 15 feet (5 yards) from the car Saturday." I'm not sure that fits the description except where criminals are around and I don't think that's factored into this law.

Are you implying that the distance from the woman to the car, in this case 15 feet, should be considered a mitigating factor? Hopefully not, because while that distance may sound inconsequential, the fact that her car and her child were taken by a complete stranger argues against that.

quote:

My first thought was it’s a guy who realized he accidentally upgraded himself from grand theft auto to kidnapping and everything else that comes with it.

That's quite possible. And if so, he showed more self-awareness and insight than the mother who left her child in the car.

She was within sight and sound of the vehicle.

15 feet, about 5 strides away.

How far then are you allowed to leave the vehicle running with a child in it?

You pull out of the garage, get to the bottom of the driveway 15 feet away, and need to pull the trashcan off the street all within sight and sound of the vehicle. Are you pulling the child out of the car seat, shutting off the engine and locking up? Can't leave a child in a locked vehicle either.

The officer was there, he would have cited her for neglect if he felt cause.

Drone video of the store she was inside: Basics Meat Market. It's at the bottom and say 29 seconds on it.

Here's a screenshot of Google Street view from when it was a burger stand:


The article in the first post is a condensed version that changes and leaves out enough information that the story just doesn't add up. According to that article, the building the woman is inside is 15 feet from the vehicle, yet the officer said she was within sight and sound the whole time.

Here's a LINK to a more detailed story in which the officer states the woman was never more than 15 feet from the vehicle and that the vehicle was parked by the front door. It's a small building and all windows so the 15ft and within sight are probably close to the truth. I don't know about sound being inside the building and it looks to be on a road with a lot of traffic.

I won't blame the victim because at 4 years old, the kid didn't have any choice in the matter. The mother was lazy for not taking the keys with her and I bet she doesn't do it again with her kid in the car. If I were on a jury, I wouldn't find her guilty of child neglect.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
She was within sight and sound of the vehicle.

15 feet, about 5 strides away.

How far then are you allowed to leave the vehicle running with a child in it?

She was in a commercial area with alot of traffic, far enough away, inside a building, and distracted enough to allow her child and vehicle to be taken. That's too far.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
She was within sight and sound of the vehicle.

15 feet, about 5 strides away.

How far then are you allowed to leave the vehicle running with a child in it?

She was in a commercial area with alot of traffic, far enough away, inside a building, and distracted enough to allow her child and vehicle to be taken. That's too far.

I agree.

What difference does it make if the parent can SEE the car/child?

Say I am in a public place (park, Walmart, gas station, etc), and I leave my loaded pistol (or Rolex, or wallet) on a table and walk away. Now, I'm still within sight of it, 15 feet/5 strides, but (like the mother), I certainly cannot stop somebody from stealing it. At this point, I am no longer in control of my pistol. There is nothing physically in place to stop anybody (crook, child, etc) from taking it.

Am I negligent? I could see the pistol just fine. I was only 15 feet away. Just 5 strides.

Same situation applies here, IMO. So what if she could see the car. Here, I would argue she would have been fine had the car been locked. But, as the thief demonstrated, being able to SEE the car and being able to react fast enough to prevent a theft are two different things.

And all the arguments of "you should be able to do XYZ without worrying about some dirtbag stealing your stuff" are irrelevant. I agree we should be, but that simply is not reality. Anybody who relies solely on the 'kindness of strangers' to prevent theft or crime is a fool.

She was criminally negligent. Now, I don't expect the police to charge her, but here I am actually rooting for the car-jacker.


Or, put it this way. How many of you would be ok with somebody treating YOUR child/nephew/niece/etc like this? "Yeah, the car was running and the doors unlocked, but I could SEE the car from inside the store?"

Granted I do not leave my children in unlocked running cars by themselves, but.....

Is 15 feet the magic number to trigger child endangerment? What difference does the activity make? Is 15 feet from a child in a car different than 15 feet from a child on a swingset? What about more than 15 feet on a bicycle or walking down the sidewalk? What about more than 15 feet inside of the store itself?

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
...

You pull out of the garage, get to the bottom of the driveway 15 feet away, and need to pull the trashcan off the street all within sight and sound of the vehicle. Are you pulling the child out of the car seat, shutting off the engine and locking up? Can't leave a child in a locked vehicle either.

How about this? You pull out of the garage, get to the bottom of the driveway 15 feet away, and need to pull the trashcan off the street all within sight and sound of the vehicle.

Suddenly, you recall the story of the woman whose car and child were taken under similar circumstances in Beaverton, OR.

You decide that potentially losing your child (and even your car) aren't worth the risk and make alternate plans to pull your trashcan off the street.

The IA/IL Quad Cities have had a huge number of car thefts and property stolen from UNLOCKED cars in recent years, local LEOs are constantly reminding people to lock their vehicles.

https://qconline.com/news/quad...93-ddba25f6882b.html

Quad-City area law enforcement unveils 'Lock It Down, QC' program to stem car thefts

Tom Loewy
Dec 21, 2020 Updated Jan 5, 2021

The Davenport Police Department and 24 other law enforcement agencies from in and around the Quad-Cities launched a new effort Monday to prevent auto theft.

Davenport Police Chief Paul Sikorski unveiled "Lock It Down, QC" during a Monday press briefing.

“Vehicle thefts are an almost 100% preventable crime," Sikorski said in a news release. "We are pleading with the Quad-City region to please take this seriously and lock your vehicles, never leave your car running unattended and never leave your keys in your car.”

Through the end of November, incidents of stolen vehicles in the Quad-Cities area increased 14.5% over 2019. In December, the Quad-Cities area reported over 70 stolen cars — including one day where 14 cars were stolen in a single day.

Law enforcement officials said stolen cars often are used to commit other crimes throughout the community, up to and including homicide.

“Stolen vehicles don’t just impact the vehicle owner, but also impact our community as a whole when these vehicles are used to commit other crimes. The simple act of locking your vehicle can help keep our entire community safe.” said Rock Island Police Chief Jeff VenHuizen.

Officials outlined three key actions Quad-Citians can take to prevent car theft including:

1. Never leave your car running, even if you have your fob.

2. Always lock your car.

3. Never leave your keys in your car.

I'm honestly surprised that kill switches aren't built into modern cars.

If the car is running, in park, and the fob is not present, it could easily be programmed to shut off the second somebody puts their foot on the brake.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

“Vehicle thefts are an almost 100% preventable crime," Sikorski said in a news release.

Several instances that I can name right off the top of my head where Sikorski is 100% full of shit.

3 times my brother in law has had a locked and alarmed vehicle stolen from him. 2 during the daytime and 1 at night all different locations. (Phoenix, AZ)

My uncle had his less than 500 miles on it 2019 F-350 stolen while locked and alarmed in front of a Moose Lodge. (San Antonio, TX)


All instances the vehicles were locked and alarmed and yet a simple whack with a hammer or window punch is all it takes to get in. Nobody pays any attention to car alarms anymore, especially with the propensity for them to be accidentally activated in someone's pocket. Sure an alarm set on a car out in the country where the sound would carry and immediately be noticed as out of place would be effective, but where are these thefts happening? Cities where nobody looks up, nobody sees anything, and nobody takes notice to any such sounds because of all the background noises. All a person needs is about 30 seconds and they are off, keys or not! Go to an auto dealer and ask for a new ignition key. There are only about 5-10 different keys (even chipped) per model. Go on Craigslist and see how many ads there are for various keys/fobs and you'll begin to understand how easy it is to steal a car.


I am with Sigmonkey the Wise on what to do with thieves. Public hanging should be used to deter any and all future thievery.