Having just gone through this, I researched the make/model I wanted with the specific options I wanted. I then researched pricing online for what seems fair and reasonable based on nationwide purchase prices, invoice prices and my rule of thumb (at least 10% off MSRP for Toyota - I only buy Toyota).

I went to the dealer with the details of what I want. Went for a reasonable test drive. Let them make the first offer and then told them what I'm willing to pay. Made the deal. The negotiation took < 1 hour (presumably, they were checking my credit and such and also finding the car since they didn't have what I wanted on the lot).

The rest of the paperwork and such took another couple hours of waiting. But the negotiation was quick - 1 back and forth before settling on a mutually agreeable price. I think most of the time was just finding another dealer with the car I wanted and working a trade deal with them.

I probably didn't get a rock bottom price. But I got an acceptable price.

The key is, before you go to the dealer, you have a firm price in mind and you know your walkaway price. If they are between your desired and walkaway price, make the deal if you feel okay. If they are above your walkaway price, walkaway firmly. Don't waffle. Wait for another day.

I always (with the exception of sports cars) buy 2 year old vehicles with less than 35K miles and drive them for a long time. I have been a Honda (never had a lemon) guy and recently switched to Subaru. Both seem equal in quality. I like letting the guy that bought it new take the money hit.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Your wife is right. Trucks carry a penis tax. I sold my truck. If I need one I can rent a u-haul for 50 bucks. I got a Corolla for under 20k. Mileage is double and insurance is halved.

You know doing just this has crossed my mind.

I never set foot in a dealership before the 25th of the month. Every sales manager in the country is compensated on volume. I want to be dealing with him when he is trying to get to the next bonus level, not when he is starting a new month.

Unless it's a work vehicle, why BUY a depreciating asset?

Lease.

I get me x-plan pin, research the exact model I want and go armed with an approximate price I expect the x-plan to be. I bring a cashiers check for approximately 1/3rd of that price, rounded up. I like ford financing, I've financed and paid off 3 vehicles with them.

For the last two vehicles, we insisted on 0% financing. No trades, and paid 1/3rd down.

I prefer new. I get tired of used crap that is priced like new. I tend to keep a vehicle for 10 years or more.

I've done this for 4 vehicles now, and am happy with our choices. Currently we have a 96 eddie bauer bronco, a 16 F250 platinum diesel, and a 16 fusion titanium sport. We're considering a 21 expedition or explorer when our daughter turns 16 and we purpose the fusion to her use. My bronco is ready for an engine refresh as it has 220K miles on it. It's going to end up being our satellite extension office vehicle left at the airport near our extension office. That way we can fly up and have a vehicle there. It needs some work to be year-round reliable again, but it's in pretty good shape.

We've owned 1 subaru, 1 jeep, 1 mitsubishi, 1 honda, 1 nissan, 1 bmw (car), and 7 Fords. I've yet to be disappointed with a Ford.

quote:

Originally posted by craigcpa:
Unless it's a work vehicle, why BUY a depreciating asset?

Lease.

So far that's not made sense, but I've explored it. Currently my business leases 2 of my vehicles from me. It has worked well for our tax situation. Partly because we still have 3 other vehicles available for personal use outside of business.

http://www.realcartips.com
I used this guys tutorial on buying a car, and it works. Use the dealerships against eachother, go through the internet sales manager, let them fight for your business. I got a new 2018 Subaru Forester premium for $1,600 below (factory) invoice, and I joined some Subaru forums to get a better idea of what deals were out there- most reported 1,300-1500 below invoice. Just make sure to read every part from beginning to end, then read it 5 more times and stick to it. From the time I started the process of contacting the dealers for initial offers till I had what I was looking for took about 2 days.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: medic451,

I found the car I wanted at a few different dealers, bid them against each other, then took the lowest quote.

And 0% financing.

Of course, I drive a stick, so it's not quite as in-demand as other cars might have been.

quote:

Originally posted by craigcpa:
Unless it's a work vehicle, why BUY a depreciating asset?

Lease.

That's fine if you change cars often.

But on the other hand, why pour money in to no asset at all? At the end of a lease, your investment depreciates to zero.

I have a master's degree in dispute resolution, with a heavy emphasis in negotiation strategy. I got approximatey 17.8% off of MSRP on my vehicle purchase in November after 6 hours of negotiations, and weeks of research, and am satisfied with my result.

Information is your friend. You should go in knowing the exact vehicle build and options that you intend on purchasing, and the way your build and options affect pricing.

You should know the inventory of each and every dealer in the region. You should know which dealers have your vehicle in stock, how many they might have, and how they might be optioned out differently than yours.

You should contact the internet sales manager for each dealership, and get their pricing. Most won't give you their best price online anymore because they the don't want you to shop their prices against the competitors, but it's a start. Then, go in person and get more quotes. Shop, shop, shop. Tell them that you are checking out competing makes. Leave, and let them give you follow up pricing.

Research competing vehicles. Learn enough about other vehicles that you could convince a salesperson that you are comparison shopping both vehicles. Get the best out the door price on your second choice vehicle.

Walk into the dealership with the most inventory 2 or 3 days before the end of the month. Give them the laundry list of vehicle options that you want. Reject all the vehicles that are over-optioned. Direct them to the vehicle that you actually want, the one you know they have in stock (because you've done your research).

Set your price ceiling. Set it low, lower than you think is reasonable. The price a dealer pays for a vehicle is complex, made up of manufacturer price tiers, sales bonuses, etc. A dealer will sell you a vehicle for less than they paid for it and still make money on it. So set your price ceiling low.

Be patient. The average American gets frustrated with a negotiation after 2.5 exchanges. Push past that. Not every counter offer should be met. Do not split the difference. Do not tit-for-tat a damn thing. It's okay to say no.

Give the dealership the impression that you have the exact amount of money in your budget burning a hole in your pocket. They get to that price and nothing is going to get in your way. No need to get the wife's opinion, borrow money from your uncle, etc. You have the money or the credit, add you'll either buy the same car somewhere else, or your second choice car as a better value or the more desirable vehicle.

Be patient. Say no often. It's okay to say no. Just let them negotiate against themselves.

Beware of their tactics. Negotiate an out the door price. Do not negotiate monthly payments. Secure your own financing if you need to to allow you to negotiate out the door price. If you want their financing, you'll have an opportunity to negotiate that later with the finance guy after you've set an out the door price.

After you've worn them down, got them to invest most of their day with you, and they finally meet your number as you walk out the door, tell them that they'll need to throw in the latest software upgrade and all weather floor mats if they expect you to give them a positive customer service survey rating after wasting your day.

Have fun. Don't be a jerk. Be friendly with the people, but don't budge on your numbers.

Not sure there is a "strategy" just a list of things not to do unless you wanna be a sucker...

As with most things in life, the more financial freedom you have (as in have the ability to walk in and pay at least a good portion cash, and have good credit) will significantly help you.

Assuming you have at least a decent downpayment (and you get stronger with the more cash you have up to paying actual cash for the car) and if you have the credit to qualify for the best loans.... This is what I have found is the way to both get a decent deal, and not tear your hair out.

Step 1: Research. Not on prices or anything. Sit down and look at what YOU want in a car. Do you care about reliability, price, image, features, tech, repairability... Rank these things.

For example there are people who HAVE to drive a "luxury" brand, like Land Rover, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, etc. That's fine. I'm not a commie, if you can afford it then it's your money my friend. And sometimes they are the best vehicle choice.

Either way, narrow it down to at least the CLASS and a select few brands you are interested in... and be reasonable with yourself with what you can afford. Car salesmen can SMELL an idiot who has a Toyota budget and BMW taste a mile away... and if you are smart enough, you will see where this ties in to my next points... Remember I did 10 years in sales... I can smell a sucker a mile away.

Once you pick out your desired makes/models (it is okay to have a few, I'd just hope that as a serious car buyer they are all pretty close in spec/class) then start looking online. Look at what is actually for sale. Compare apples to apples in you compare same model years and body style/option packages. If you see the same year, body style, option package, and condition you can be sure to take an average of the price. Consider this to be an average or maybe even a "fair" price.

Next, take "note" of how long that car is there. If you have 5 cars that meet the category of the above... and after 2 to 3 weeks they are ALL still available... then you know that NO ONE has been wowed out the door with the prices.... So there is wiggle room. No dealer is going to invite you in, give you coffee, offer a massage and then lose money on you, but you at least get a feel for the market.

Now, visit the dealerships. Have a fair price in mind (be reasonable, we aren't using "The Price is Right rules....)

Side note... One of the biggest fights I get into is the old "So if i spend my time with you can you PROMISE you will buy a car today!?!?!

"Fuck you car salesman, if the price is good enough I'll buy a car, if not I'll spin on my heel and walk my happy ass out of here. Don't play stupid games with me."

So at this point you should have an idea of a fair price. You should have a "max" price of what you think the car is worth. You should also have a list of dealers with similar or the same exact car.... don't tell the other dealers this.

Go in, pick the car you want and start talking turkey...

And HERE IS THE KEY. NEGOTIATE EVERYTHING SEPARATELY!!!!!

DO NOT FALL INTO THE TRAPS:

1. "Well how much do you want to pay per month?"

(With this question, they are literally moving behind you, pushing your head down, dropping both your pants, lubing up, and getting ready for the big one..... DON"T EVER BE THIS STUPID)

Next thing you know you are buying a $97,000 Chevy Aveo with the math in the dealer's favor on your 9 year loan at 12 percent interest but a low, low, car payment of $97.00 a month.

NEGOTIATE EVERY PART OF THE DEAL SEPARATELY... AND ONCE IT IS NEGOTIATED LOCK IT IN. IF THEY TRY TO CHANGE IT... WALK AWAY.

Do you have a trade in. Don't tell them yet. Do you have your own financing? DOn't tell them. Manufacturer incentives/0.0 percent financing? Don't tell them yet.

Before you got to the dealer, you should have gotten your own financing. This is worst case scenario. You will probably get better terms through the manufacturer, or dealer, but have a fall back. If you KNOW you can get 1.9% for 5 years from your bank then you have a baseline... get pre approved.

Then negotiate price of car. This should be easy. After your research you should know what other similar options are out there. Be prepared to walk. They will try to walk you back to either negotiating EVERYTHING at once, but keep them off that. Remember, even if you can't, you need them to think you can pay cash for this vehicle and the rest of their bluster is for naught... You know the acceptable price, and you won't pay a dollar more. If they game you, be prepared to walk away. After all, if you have actually done your research you know who has what for what price. You might have a salesman cuss you out, or threaten you. I have, and it went poorly for him. But if so, you know you won and he was full of shit.

Once you settle in on price... THEN negotiate trade in value. You ALWAYS have the option to sell the car outright on craigslist or whatever... You are required to do NOTHING. Get the price of the car in writing, and then start on trade. Be honest with them, tell them you are not sure if you are trading, or selling, or keeping it for your (fictional or not, 16 year old daughter, niece, babysitter, none of their business). Let them make you an offer. You should have blue booked your trade in at htis point. If it isn't reasonable, screw them, do it yourself and bypass them.

Next incentives.... Cash back? 0.0 percent financing? Do the math. Who know how it will work out. Sometiems the cash back, and then writing a check to the loan on principal is much cheaper int he long run that 0.0 percent. All i can say is do the math.

Financing... Again, do the math. Is it cheaper to take the incentives, do the financing from the dealer, or your own. Or... if you are smart and preapproved, sometimes you can get a discount to buy the car if you take the higher rate dealer financing. If you have your own financing pre approved through your bank, you can do that, pay the loan off and get a new loan from the bank, and take both. Get prepared and do the math.

That's about it, other than the obvious in that any company that calls you and offerrs an extended warranty is a scam....

Yeah, and everything Kevin said. Except, low ball the fuck out of that dealership

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Yeah, and everything Kevin said. Except, low ball the fuck out of that dealership

I say check out Costco pricing on the Subaru. Used Subaru's hold their value well. I think we got a great deal with Costco though. 4.5k off sticker, 0.9% Subaru financing and two season ski passes ($1200 value). Sold it two years and 26k miles later (needed a bigger vehicle for growing family) for 3k less than what we paid new. That tells me we didn't pay much markup.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bigeinkcmo,

Paying cash will not get you the best deal from a dealer. They make serious money on their financing, and not from the buyers, but rather their corporate overlords. If you don't want to finance, you should still do it to get the deal done, then either pay it off in a month or make extra payments. I got 0.9% on my car and just make double payments. I know it's getting traded the day before the warranty runs out (unlimited miles, four years). So, as long as I'm never underwater on the value, I won't owe anything when I trade it, will get a small break on sales tax or will just sell it myself and then buy something else private party to avoid sales tax altogether. No sales tax on private party sales in AZ and with dealers you pay tax on the trade difference.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:

quote:

Originally posted by craigcpa:
Unless it's a work vehicle, why BUY a depreciating asset?

Lease.

That's fine if you change cars often.

But on the other hand, why pour money in to no asset at all? At the end of a lease, your investment depreciates to zero.

It's no different when you finance the car with a loan. You don't own the car until the last payment is made and most of the time you are upside down on what you owe and what the car is worth.

Some vehicles lease out exceptionally cheap. You never have negative equity and you have a bumper to bumper warranty most of the time. At the end of the lease you can purchase the car for the residual value.


Which in my last vehicle was what I did and it worked out incredibly cheap. 2008 expedition, 36 month lease at $505 a month ($476 + sales tax) including tax (sticker was $39.xxx), my purchase price at the end of 3 years was $19,200 +17,150 I already paid in the lease= $36.350 total cost.

My strategy is simple:

I NEVER go to new car dealerships, You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than a new car dealership.

I only go to CarMax type places that sell 1-2 year old cars. Around here we have a local chain called CarSense which is excellent and I never feel like I have to take a shower after dealing with them like I do at new car dealerships. They have fair retail pricing and never try to screw me on a trade-in. No having to play silly games with negotiation and back and forth BS.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Paying cash will not get you the best deal from a dealer. They make serious money on their financing, and not from the buyers, but rather their corporate overlords. If you don't want to finance, you should still do it to get the deal done, then either pay it off in a month or make extra payments. I got 0.9% on my car and just make double payments. I know it's getting traded the day before the warranty runs out (unlimited miles, four years). So, as long as I'm never underwater on the value, I won't owe anything when I trade it, will get a small break on sales tax or will just sell it myself and then buy something else private party to avoid sales tax altogether. No sales tax on private party sales in AZ and with dealers you pay tax on the trade difference.

Coming in with cash strengthens your negotiation position on the out-the-door price. If you negotiate financing with the dealer, they'll play games with the finance rate.

Negotiate a cash price. Come with your own financing, or money in the bank.

The finance guy will desk the deal separately and try to get you to finance it. This happened on my last negotiation, where after I had already gotten the best out the door price I could from the sales team, the finance guy then tried to offer me additional incentives from the manufacturer for financing, plus a low APR.

Brother, I feel your pain!

There is no substitute in current production for the old Ranger/Mazda pickup. I had a 1991 Ranger and still own my 2000 Mazda B3000 and 2006 B2300. They are great trucks! And only cost about $12,000 new, for a 2WD regular cab.

The new Ranger would be about $27K for a 2WD extended cab - they don't even make a regular cab.

The cheapest alternative is a Nissan Frontier, but they seem to have less than stellar reliability, and cost about $20K.

I have bought most of my trucks new. I go look at autotrader, and look at the discounts from list at dealers within 100 miles. Then I go to the nearest dealers, and see if they have a vehicle with the equipment I need. In 2012 and 2016 the dealers gave me $9K to $10K off list on an F150. The internet is my friend. But be patient, it took three months and 15 dealers before I found the deal I wanted on the 2016.

New pickups keep their value better than new cars. So I buy new trucks and used cars.