A little excessive if you ask me

A federal judge sentenced Gregory Burleson, 53, of Phoenix to 68 years in prison Wednesday for his role in the Nevada standoff between rancher Cliven Bundy’s band and federal authorities, the Associated Press reports.

Prosecutors pushed for the maximum sentence of 73 years for Burleson, but Chief U.S. District Judge Gloria Navarro took five years off because of Burleson’s health and his past role as an informant for the FBI.

“Yes, I was down in the wash,” Burleson told Navarro, according to the Associated Press. “I did not go with the intention of killing anybody or assaulting anybody. It wasn’t a planned tactical assault as the government says we did.”

Burleson is the first of 17 defendants arrested in relation to the Bundy case to be convicted and sentenced. He was found guilty of threatening and assaulting federal officers, traveling across state lines in aid of extortion, and obstruction of justice, Reuters reports.

Four other men involved in the standoff were granted a mistrial after the jury deadlocked and will be retried.

Two others plead guilty separately, landing one with a seven-year prison term. The other will be sentenced in January, Reuters reports.

Cliven Bundy and his sons are still awaiting trial.

The standoff began when Cliven Bundy and his sons prevented federal authorities from carrying out a court ordered roundup of Bundy’s cattle. The Nevada rancher had let his cattle illegally graze on public lands for more than 20 years.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/07...al-agents-in-nevada/

Play stupid games, Win stupid prizes.

Thats a life sentence. He earned it.

Excessive?

Yeah. No shit.

People get less for much worse, often.

That's just crazy.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Play stupid games, Win stupid prizes.

Really?

Around here Bundy is a hero.

Just who was "stupid"?

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Excessive?

Yeah. No shit.

People get less for much worse, often.

That's just crazy.

It all depends on your viewpoint. You might think that pulling a home invasion and killing some people to steal their stuff is worse. I might not disagree with you.

However, the government is unlikely to think highly of citizens taking up arms to screw with them. They might decide to land especially hard on folks doing so in order to encourage others considering similar action to rethink. Even when the government does something that most of us would consider blatantly wrong (asset forfeiture anyone?), they are unlikely to appreciate citizens taking up arms to object to their actions. If you want to protest, there is a way to do that peacefully. You are welcome to lobby your representatives. But if you are thinking about taking up arms against the government (no matter how screwed up or wrong they may be), at least spend a little time considering whether whatever your issue is is a hill worth dying for.

We have a President who is doing some good stuff for us. He probably won't get as far as we'd like, even if he does get the whole eight years we hope for, but he appears to be moving in the right direction. Perhaps we might accomplish more supporting him than taking up arms against our government. I'm not saying that the time for that can't possibly ever come, but it sure seems like now is not even on the same planet as that time. YMMV...

If he was a Chicago thug he would have received a two year sentence at most.

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Play stupid games, Win stupid prizes.

Really?

Around here Bundy is a hero.

Just who was "stupid"?

Sap - I'm not sure if you're referring to your neck of the woods or the forum, but I am interested to know what about him might be considered heroic? I didn't follow any of the threads discussing the standoff or subsequent legal proceedings, so I apologize if it's been beaten to death in the past. I'm just curious about your point of view.

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Play stupid games, Win stupid prizes.

Really?

Around here Bundy is a hero.

Just who was "stupid"?

I'm quite sure around Ferguson Michael Brown, and the carnage that he caused is considered a hero. A patriot. And whatever other label is wanted or needed to paint him in the best light for the "cause".

We live in a civilized society, and there are rules to said society. With these rules comes the right way to do things. When a person decides that they no longer want to participate by the rules, do things the right way, and they barricade up to show the "man", that is monumentally stupid. It never ends well. These guys decided that they wanted to stand up for what they considered to be their principles. And now it is time to pay the check and be personally responsible for what they did.

That same standard of personal responsibility applies to all of us. When it doesn't, we are no better than the animals that try to ruin this country with legislation, or a gun. It isn't a over reaching government problem, or a pissed off rancher problem. The check is due, and it is time to pay up.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

quote:

play stupid games, win stupid prizes

When that applies and is applied equally to the people and the government itself, then your point of view is valid. As long as it remains in severe disconnect, one cannot reasonably expect the people to follow such an astonishingly poor example.

I suspect the resistance to continue unabated, and it's well deserved.

I expect my government and leaders to lead by example.

I stay out of such mess for various reasons but support the notion of many of them, and find that this case is an extremely bad example of government overreach and double standard. 68 years is insane, truly, unequivocally, insane and unwarranted.

Regarding my question to Sap, if anyone is of the opinion that Bundy is a hero, I would be interested in the reasoning behind it. I got the impression that he was trying to mask his freeloading by claiming it was some sort of states rights play. What happened to trigger his original decision to stop paying for the grazing rights?

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

play stupid games, win stupid prizes

When that applies and is applied equally to the people and the government itself, then your point of view is valid. As long as it remains in severe disconnect, one cannot reasonably expect the people to follow such an astonishingly poor example.

I suspect the resistance to continue unabated, and it's well deserved.

I expect my government and leaders to lead by example.

I stay out of such mess for various reasons but support the notion of many of them, and find that this case is an extremely bad example of government overreach and double standard. 68 years is insane, truly, unequivocally, insane and unwarranted.

I'm reminded of the quote in someone's signature line about America being at that awkward stage. It certainly felt that way for eight years. It feels (to me at least) to be headed back in the right direction.

I agree (on the upswing), though I think this sentencing doesn't fit that notion at all.

When someone related to Begazi or Fast and Furious or Hillary's Classified Materials or rookie Somali cops in cities or rapists or kid diddlers or repeated wife beaters or a dozen other horrendous offenses within which many lose their lives or innocence start getting 68years for their crimes - I'll start to have more faith and sympathy and feel differently.

This guy killed or hurt no one, and caused no material damage to this country.

68 years is INSANE.

And I don't even give a single dash of shit about this particular guy and his cause.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
I agree (on the upswing), though I think this sentencing doesn't fit that notion at all.

When someone related to Begazi or Fast and Furious or Hillary's Classified Materials or rookie Somali cops in cities or rapists or kid diddlers or repeated wife beaters or a dozen other horrendous offenses within which many lose their lives or innocence start getting 68years for their crimes - I'll start to have more faith and sympathy and feel differently.

This guy killed or hurt no one, and caused no material damage to this country.

68 years is INSANE.

And I don't even give a single dash of shit about this particular guy and his cause.

He attacked the government. Or at least participated with other folks attacking the government. The government isn't going to like that. If he got a slap on the wrist some other disgruntled soul might think it was a good idea to attack the government. His sentence sends a pretty clear message that it is not a good idea.

Not picking sides on his cause either, just understanding reality.

I'm reminded of a bit in the book Shogun (Someone who has read the book less than several decades ago can give a more precise report) where the sailor is talking about their successful rebellion from their king. TheyJapanese guy is having a really hard time understanding the idea and asks, "But doesn't that make them criminals?". The sailor says something to the effect of "Unless they win." Bundy and his crew were *never* going to win this one, therefore they are criminals and are going to have to take the hit that their government dishes out.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

play stupid games, win stupid prizes

When that applies and is applied equally to the people and the government itself, then your point of view is valid. As long as it remains in severe disconnect, one cannot reasonably expect the people to follow such an astonishingly poor example.

I suspect the resistance to continue unabated, and it's well deserved.

I expect my government and leaders to lead by example.

I stay out of such mess for various reasons but support the notion of many of them, and find that this case is an extremely bad example of government overreach and double standard. 68 years is insane, truly, unequivocally, insane and unwarranted.

I'm not a goody two shoes. I am not perfect. But, I have to live my life by having standards. I live my life to the belief that just because someone does something, and gets away with it, that it doesn't give me free reign to do the same. Just because the government over reaches, I should over reach right back and use that as an excuse for my actions. I don't think we are to that point in society. That we should say the "end is near" and do what we wish in society because the government has come after some of us.

I know that isn't what you are saying, and that you likely feel the same way to a degree. I don't like an abusive government. But, if I violate the law, willingly as in this case, the check is going to come due and I'm going to have to pay up.

Was it excessive? Who knows. I don't know what similar offenses have brought time wise. If other offenses brought half the time, I'll agree that it was excessive. But, at the end of the day, the check is due. The defendant is responsible for his actions. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Bundy made thinly veiled threats of violence against BLM rangers and other personnel. He expanded his cattle grazing area well past the acreage he had initially leased, and he continued to (try to) bully others so he could have what he wanted (free grazing land).

The BLM backed off to avoid violence, and most likely Bundy thought that his bullying tactics were working. Like the Japanese in WW2, he thought aggression was the way to get what you want.

Eventually he went to Oregon, well outside of his area of protection/inimidation. He was arrested, and now is learning that all the soverign nation language means nothing. He will have many years to ponder whether all the bullying and aggressive tactics were worth it.

Reminds me a bit of Colin Kapernick, who may finally be realizing that the world does not revolve him around after all.
----------
Wikipedia:
"The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported that tensions reached a "critical level" during the standoff, "with rifles pointing toward each side."[68][69] Las Vegas station KLAS-TV also reported that guns were pointed at officers.[66] Assistant Sheriff Lombardo recounted that "they were in my face yelling profanities and pointing weapons," and said, "We were outgunned, outmanned, and there would not have been a good result from it."[66]
A photojournalist for Reuters wrote that armed supporters had "taken up tactical positions on government officers," and that one man pointing a rifle in the direction of BLM employees said, "I've got a clear shot at four of them."[70] Another man said, "I'm ready to pull the trigger if fired upon."[70]

I suspect these are wannabe toughguys, and have no sympathy for them.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: c1steve,

Former militia group member, Gregory Burleson, of Arizona, who has also been a paid FBI informant, was convicted of assault upon and threatening of a federal officer, aiding extortion via both interstate commerce and travel, obstruction of justice, plus multiple gun counts.

He faces a 57 year mandatory minimum sentence.

quote:

Originally posted by grumpy1:
If he was a Chicago thug he would have received a two year sentence at most.

If he was a Politician, he would have gotten 6 months probation plus community service.

Not guilty on four.

http://www.ktnv.com/news/no-gu...ville-ranch-standoff


"LAS VEGAS (AP) - A federal jury in Las Vegas has refused to convict four accused gunmen in a 2014 standoff with federal authorities near the Nevada ranch of anti-government figure Cliven Bundy."

That's a life sentence, no matter how you word it, for four counts that do not warrant life in prison. (I would really like to see the evidence that he assaulted officers, since it is listed separately from threatening them.) There actually is a part of the Constitution that prohibits exactly that kind of sentence.

Life in prison is what we give serial killers.