A couple of years ago we where kicking around a new SUV. Since things were super insane with new vehicles we thought we would wait. I am not interested in paying MSRP or higher. Just not going to do that. I don't need one that bad. Feel like a decent deal can be negotiated now. Either that or purchase a vehicle where msrp is with in reason for the quality of the vehicle.

Some I am looking at:

Toyota and Honda. Maybe Lexus or Acura. Toyota and Honda, Yeah I get that.

The Ford Explorer I kind of like, but really not sure about.

It looks like the Honda pilot has returned to it roots some. Which I like.

I would like to get 25 mpg on the highway.

The list would include

Pilot
Passport
Highlander
I am not familiar with the models of Acura and Lexus. Would need to travel to look at those and not local dealer near me.
Explorer
4Runner
Others?

I realize the 4Runner will not get 25mpg. That does not rule it out.
I would prefer a real 4wd vs awd and the 4Runner is the only one I believe.
It will not be an offroad rig. The 4Runner has plus' and minus' for my needs. I am not trying to impress any one, lol.

I need to tow 5000lbs
It will need to navigate mountain passes in the winter and handle lots of snow, ice, winter driving conditions.

Being able to do 75mpg on the freeway without compromising decent or better fuel mileage is a big plus.

I would like to be sub 45k
Would like all the amenities as well


thoughts.

Thanks guys.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: old rugged cross,

We have a '21 Highlander Hybrid Platinum that is the best car we have ever owned. While the hybrid gets about 35 MPG, it can only tow 3,500#. The regular Highlander can tow 5,000. There is nothing about our Highlander that I would change and would buy another in a heartbeat.

We sold a Honda Passport to get the Highlander. The Honda was definitely second tier. I wouldn't even consider a Honda SUV again.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
I realize the 4Runner will not get 25mpg. That does not rule it out.

Thanks guys.

The 4Runner is a great SUV but you can expect 14 MPG pulling a trailer.
I would stick with Toyota. I believe they are the best built and will have the fewest issues over time.

quote:

We sold a Honda Passport to get the Highlander. The Honda was definitely second tier. I wouldn't even consider a Honda SUV again.

Mike

While I respect your opinion I do not feel Honda is second tier when compared to Toyota.

I would like some info on the Pilot. I am thinking it is between a Highlander and 4Runner in terms of capabilities which interests me. Any new Pilot owners?

I also feel the Explorer (v6) power is in that category between the highlander and 4Runner

2020 Explorer Limited 2wd here
Commuting in Houston rush hour daily, I'm averaging 23mpg overall.
Instant econ shows over 30 steady cruise on the highway.

300hp, and can tow 5300lbs with the 4cyl (same engine as the Ranger & EcoBoost Mustang).
5600lbs if you up to one of the TT V6 trims (ST, King Ranch or Platinum)

We also have an Expedition Max, thirstier but a lot more pulling power.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Others?

I'm pretty happy with my 2018 VW Tiguan. I drove almost every model of SUV when I was in purchase mode and the VW was clearly superior in fit and finish, comfort, performance, and handling (and cheaper than most to boot). I thought at the time that VAG (Volkswagen-Audi Group) efforts to recover from the embarrassment of the emissions scandal had them motivated to pump up their product and restrain price increases. Only complaints, and they are minor ones, are a slightly lower cargo capacity compared to others in the class, and the fact that the owner/amateur is not who they want working on the vehicle (high tech German engineering at its most anal).

How about a used Yukon Denali ?

MDS

orc,

We recently purchased a 2022 CPO Honda Passport TrailSport which has a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs.

This vehicle replaces our 2005 Pilot with almost 220K on the clock.

We were pretty much set to purchase a 2023 TrailSport at slightly below sticker from the Honda dealer in Conshohocken, PA until we came across the 7 month old 2022 with low miles that we bought.

The Honda does not have the complex 4WD system that the 4Runner has but it's probably capable 'enough' for 'normal' on-roading AWD needs and lighter duty off-road driving.

We test drove almost every non-luxury brand and models in their large and next size down SUV's (i.e.; Honda Pilot and Passport).

Some manufacturers like Kia have a $10K market price adjust added to the price, and all dealers in this region stated that those are non-negotiable. Yeah, good luck selling those 20 new Tellurides on your lot!

New Toyota's in this area of PA were virtually non-existent and still are. Prices on pre-owned Toyota's are stupid high.

If you do not need 3rd row seating or Suburban-esque cargo space then the Passport (EX-L - $41.1K, TrailSport - $43.6, and Elite - $46.7K trims) is worth a look and a test drive.

The TrailSport rides on 18" wheels vs. 20" ers for the other trims, which allows the TS to have a tire with a taller side-wall and thus 'better' ride and more trustworthy and durable off-road reliability (according to my on-line research).

It drives very nicely, feels larger / roomier inside than its competition, has good-enough 'technology' (I was impressed with Kia and Hyundai in this regard) and the usual driver-assist and safety features.

Good luck!

Rob

I have the pilot, my friend traded his for a passport.

Not really much different except the passport has its cargo area shortened and the tires make it feel more car-like.

I have had the pilot since 2018 and no problems and nothing but scheduled maintenance.

I have also had Ford Explorers and a mercury mountaineer. Both needed more maintenance than the Honda pilot but much. The fit and finish is better in the Honda, but that was years ago, not sure about now.

Thanks guy. Good info. Interested in the redesigned Pilot out this year.

We’ve had 2 highlanders and they were both excellent, the most recent was a 2019. I currently have a 4runner. The 4R is definitely more solid feeling and tows well but I only tow a UTV and a couple of ATVs. The power tailgate window is great for hauling long stuff. The highlander is a much better daily driver and better for road trips…not that the 4R is bad for those, it’s just not as car like. We only got rid of the highlander because we no longer have kids to tote around so my wife wanted something smaller.

We have never sunk a dime into any of them for anything other than regular maintenance, tires and brakes and one battery. I’m almost at 90k on the 2018 4R Limited. I have a quite a few dirt roads in my area that get pretty nasty/muddy in the spring and we get lots of snow. I like the 4R better for those conditions but again, the Highlander never gave me any trouble getting through that stuff either, I just have to be slightly more thoughtful about how I do it. We’ve had several Hondas but no Pilot. The Ridgeline was great.

Take a look at the Acura MDX. It’s worth the price premium over the Pilot.

4Runner

Don't even need to think about that one.

I’d prefer AWD, it’s always on and works on dry pavement. The 4Runner’s manual says its part-time 4WD should only be used when the tires can slip like snow covered roads. I’d get the full-time 4WD with the 4Runner.

5,000 pounds is right at the max for these vehicles. I towed two smaller PWC on an aluminum trailer 1,600 miles at the beginning of the month. That’s about 2,500 pounds. The Odyssey got 14.8mpg instead of the usual 25mpg. While it did fine with that, I don’t know that I’d want to tow twice the weight with a naturally aspirated V-6 with 260-280 lbft of torque. The Highlander’s turbo charged 2.4 liter inline four cylinder makes over 300 lbft of torque most likely at a lower rpm and over a broader rpm range than a NA V-6. On the other hand, with 8,9, or 10 speed transmission, maybe it doesn’t matter?

For comparison’s sake, I did the same trip as the Odyssey a month earlier with my F350. The PWC were bigger and on a steel trailer, so close to 3,500 pounds. The F350 got 14mpg. If I were going to tow 5,000 pounds on a regular basis or for a long distance, I’d use my pickup truck where the 5,000 pounds is 1/3 it’s rated capability rather than 95-100% of our Ford Explorer.

Speaking of the Explorer, Honda and Toyota have nothing that compares to the Explorer’s V-6 which makes 400hp and 415 lbft of torque. We had a Telluride as well.

For your purposes in your price range, I’d be looking at a Honda or Toyota.

The 4Runner seems to be the last old style SUV. I like mine except at it struggles at altitude. The lose of power is evident starting about 6000’. There seem to be few other vehicles that a 4Runner Will keep up with from there on up.
Folks speculate on big changes coming the 4runnner line so if you like the current model time is running out.

A little dated but when I was looking in 2018 I wanted to love the 4Runner but came away from test drives underwhelmed.
The Pilot/MDX was much better IMO.
Unless you are going to go CPO I think you may struggle to get sub $45K.

I'm on my 4th Ford Explorer and there will likely be a 5th in my future.

I went through this process in 2019, spending the better part of the year test driving the competition and working dealers for price. In the end, I purchased a 4Runner Limited that October. Our neighbors and friends had multiple issues with their SUVs, including explorers, expeditions, tahoes, tellurides, etc.

The 4runner gets 15 around town, and 22-24 on the highway. It tows well enough (with WDH), and the Limited is full-time 4 wheel drive with heated and cooled seats. While other brands had more techie content, I wasn't looking for carplay or phone integration beyond bluetooth calling. I want it to be as simple as possible. The Limited ride is a bit flinty around town, but seems pretty composed on the highway. At 18k miles now, the stock tires are wearing enough to replace. Note that if you don't like the relatively skinny stock tires, there is a dealer option for wider tires. I kept my previous vehicle (2008 Pathfinder) for over 10 years, and anticipate keeping this one for even longer.

If you can stomach the bad gas mileage and barn door tailgate, the lexus GX460 was super nice. They depreciate enough that a used one can be found for decent pricing.

The Acura MDX seems big on paper, but didn't have the room inside that we wanted. It has a fancy AWD system that actually puts power where needed. I don't think I've ever seen one tow, though the AWD models say 5k max.

The Highlander was very car-like to drive, and its proponents say the AWD system is good enough for all conditions except offroading. I read a few reviews that said it is just bad at towing.

I liked the Pilot, but it felt really mini-van to me. It was a great use of space and not-a-minivan family hauler, and was seriously considered before I got a response from a dealer with a good price on the 4runner.

Highlander is nice but 5,000 pounds towing is the max. Even towing an empty 6' x 12' double axle trailer, mileage was significantly reduced to around 16-17 MPG. The interior features seem dated on the vehicle but we had a 2018.

I know many on this forum seemingly don't care about interior features but the way I see it is when you are with your vehicle, you are inside 99% of the time and may as well have the best interior features.

Take a look at the Hyundai Pallisade and the Kia Telluride. They might meet your needs and have a 60k 5yr bumper to bumper warranty/ 100k 10yr powertrain warranty.