Comply the firearm safety rules.

Any weapon not positively confirmed as unloaded, is for all intents and purposes, loaded, until you check it.

Counting rounds, etc are unnecessary. If you don't know it's unloaded, it's loaded.

There are multiple ways to get there. One canonical way is to eject the mag, then rack the chambered round out launching it.

I sometimes use the above method, but I tend to leave the mag in, lock the slide back slowly and carefully (yes, really not a good idea with a ‘40 caliber Glock if you are using .40 S&W rounds with large pistol primers), catching the round that slowly rolls out of the chamber in the cupped support hand, coming back along the firing side arm to the torso, then pocketing it, going back to the pistol, dropping the mag, then pocketing it.

The first way pretty much precludes having the primer of the chambered round hit the ejector and spray your support hand with brass shrapnel. There is a reason it is a canonical way. With care, working on P series pistols I’ve had no problems, not that this means it can’t happen tomorrow.

However you get the ammunition out of the gun, the next step is to visually and physically verify the gun is empty (Thanks jljones). Pinky in the chamber, any finger or thumb in the magazine well. I find that if the pistol has been fired much at all, the pinky comes back with a black ring from the edge of the chamber. Yes, I visually check for that too.

When shooting or doing dry practice with the wife and/or kids, once I’ve satisfied myself that my pistol is clear, I ask one of them to “clear me out” and they visually and physically inspect. They also ask for a second set of eyes.

Most of us will go our entire lives without ever having an “opportunity” to use our handguns defensively (Thank goodness!). However, we have something like a million opportunities every day to screw up. It behooves us to use a belt and suspenders approach to safety.

Thanks much to Jerry and the OpSpec team for training me and my family to have a focus on safety.

quote:

Originally posted by StorminNormin:
This is why for me the FIRST step is to ensure there is not a magazine in the firearm and then I will rack the slide 3-4 times. Of course the next step is to lock the slide and inspect the chamber.

Same for me.

You can lock the slide to the rear on a Walther with an empty mag. Just sayin.

Just yesterday I scolded myself for receiving a firearm and not checking the action. I held the 1911 without gripping it nor putting any fingers near the trigger guard. It was muzzle to safe direction and handed to me without a mag. Even though I had just seen the owner drop the mag and open the action, I still do it myself......well, except for yesterday. Didn't even occur to me until driving home. I let the beauty of the pistol distract me. It's missed details like that that get people killed.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Any weapon not positively confirmed as unloaded, is for all intents and purposes, loaded, until you check it.

If you don't know it's unloaded, it's loaded.

Live by this rule.

Racking the slide “x” number of times means your focus is somewhere other than the empty chamber. The empty chamber is all that matters. Drop mag. Confirm empty chamber. It’s not hard.

Good reminder, we are all human and subject to failure. They are always loaded.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:

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Originally posted by TSE:

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Originally posted by SevenPlusOne:

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rack the slide 3-4 times.

I know it drives some people crazy, but the 3 or 4 times thing is so that if you have an empty chamber, with a loaded magazine, if you only rack it once, you're loading the weapon, if you rack it 3-4 times, you will load, and unload the chamber, and your dumbass alarm should go off.
It's very easy to pull a slide, or bolt back and not pull far enough, or with enough force to eject the live round. For some human reason, doing something 3 times in rapid succession usually makes people apply more force.

Sorry but it is just wrong. Lock the slide back and physically inspect feedpath and chamber. Racking the slide multiple times is a recipe for disaster unless the end result is slide lock and in that case why waste the time and effort just lock it back. I saw a fellow do a « cool » unload with lots of speed racking and he still managed to end up with a live round in the chamber and dropped the hammer shooting his shotgun through the stock.

This is the way it is done. Mag out, lock to rear, visually and physically check the chamber.

This.

If it's a semi-auto - FIRST cut off the supply of ammunition by removing the magazine, THEN rack the slide...basic for anybody in the military, then or now, but oddly difficult for some to comprehend.

Moral of the story:

You need to fiddle-fuck...

Fiddle-fucking works...

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:

If it's a semi-auto - FIRST cut off the supply of ammunition by removing the magazine, THEN rack the slide...basic for anybody in the military, then or now, but oddly difficult for some to comprehend.

I recently acquired a Seecamp .32 ("seven dot six five," as James Bond would say) from a member here. To the best of my knowledge this little pistol has never been loaded after it left the factory.

Due to the interlocks, it is not possible to clear this pistol the way that we have always learned. Once the magazine has been removed, the slide can not be retracted far enough to eject a chambered round.

I don't quite understand the manual; if I am reading it correctly, the procedure is to release the slide catch at the bottom of the grip (much like an H&K P7), let the magazine drop down just a bit, then retract the slide. Evidently if the magazine is partially inserted, the interlock will be released and the slide can be cycled. I'll have to experiment with this, first with no ammunition, then maybe do it at the range where I can keep it pointed at the backstop while I'm trying to figure it out.

If anybody here is familiar with the Seecamp, please jump in and clarify for me.

Rule #1: Always assume a firearm is loaded. Until you verify it's not.

Follow the 4 rules and everyone has a good time.

It is amazing how many people fail to physically check the chamber. At a store I use to work at, I got called over to another location to help extract a round out of a shot gun. The gun has been for sale on the shelf for 2.5 years with an round in the chamber!!


Think of how many times the gun was handled, and thank god it had a trigger lock!

I always check the chamber 3-4 times every time I pick up a firearm.

I started racking the slide multiple times with Glocks since the slide has to be closed and trigger pulled to disassemble. I do always finish locked back and feel for empty chamber but if I somehow forgot to drop that mag running that slide multiple times will start pooping rounds out as a warning.

I tend to check chambers multiple times when handling “unloaded” firearms and if I ever hand you a firearm that isn’t on a range pointed at a target known to be ready to fire you can be damn sure it will be handed to you locked open and inspected, pointed away from you and others.

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
Rule #1: Always assume a firearm is loaded. Until you verify it's not.

I live by this. Every gun in my safe is empty and no mags, but, I take it out, rack the slide and inspect the chamber....every time!

I was at a LGS and asked to see a pistol. Counter guy, an older guy like me, removed gun from the case cleared the gun and handed it to me, while keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I was impressed. I then cleared the gun keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. He said, he had not had anyone double check him in years. I said, I am old school. He smiled and said, I like old school.
Rod

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:

...snip...

...snip...

Due to the interlocks, it is not possible to clear this pistol the way that we have always learned. Once the magazine has been removed, the slide can not be retracted far enough to eject a chambered round.

I don't quite understand the manual; if I am reading it correctly, the procedure is to release the slide catch at the bottom of the grip (much like an H&K P7), let the magazine drop down just a bit, then retract the slide. Evidently if the magazine is partially inserted, the interlock will be released and the slide can be cycled. I'll have to experiment with this, first with no ammunition, then maybe do it at the range where I can keep it pointed at the backstop while I'm trying to figure it out.

...snip...

I would opt for snap caps rather than live rounds until I figured out the mechanism.

I did a search on "how to clear a seacamp .32" and there is a 18+ minute video on disassembly / assembly. I am not going to link to it because part of his "safety check" is to point safe and pull trigger. Before that idiotic move, he showed inserting an empty mag which allowed slide to be pulled back fully. So, I would suggest inserting empty mag. Pulling back slide completely. Verifying empty chamber. Eject magazine.

All guns are always loaded, all the time.
Until I prove -visual and tactile- that they are not.
A ND during a steel challenge match pretty much cemented this in my brain, forever.

Guns are always loaded, all the time.
Never point a muzzle toward something you do not want to destroy.
Racking a slide/receiver bolt is meaningless if extractor is broken or malfunctioning.

Always loaded. It’s not that hard.
Be safe, Steve

I've ingrained this into my 12 year old so much that we where in DC Father's day weekend and visited the National Law Enforcement Museum. At the museum they have a police simulator where you given a real firearm that's been converted to air action (you pull the trigger and compressed air cycles the slide) and you are given a scenario where you have to react to and shoot if necessary. As soon as the tech giving the demo gave my son the G17, he immediately removed the magazine and racked the slide to check the chamber. I think it kind of pissed off the tech as she had to reset the gun, but I was proud of him for following the rules I've been teaching him the past 12 years.