Going into Best Buy and buying a Tv on credit and not paying for it is completely different from being in a accident that’s not your fault and leaving the hospital 500k in debt.

No expert but my colon cancer certainly has given me more experience with the issue.

Many things don't make sense. 5 people walk into a Dr office/hospital/clinic. They have identical issues. They have 5 different ways to pay. The medical folks charge them 5 different amounts. It makes no sense. I see MASSIVE write offs on these bills. Seems like tax fraud to me. They charge an obscene amount, that they have already negotiated to in actuality pay a much lower amount, and then write off the rest as what? A loss?

Crazy stuff. No upfront idea of what you are buying or paying for. 10 dollar aspirin. You couldn't make this shit up.

Don't even get me started on in and out of network. You go to an in network hospital, in network doctor, and then get some random ass bill from someone out of network with no insurance ties. They have a name for that which I forget but its outrageous.

I pay my bills but I basically don't think medical bills should be in your credit score either. The system is so wildly broken, this is not even close to buying a car you can't afford and missing payments.

My bill for the hospital stay to remove the colon cancer, 5 days, was well into the 600,000 range. That was the hospital bill. Crazy stuff.

IF we ever get a Conservative, fiscally responsible person in the White House, and a Conservative majority in Congress, just imagine the pushback, protests, riots, etc that are going to happen, when they try to fix all the woke bullcrap like this. IF

Some of the high hospital and other charges undoubtedly come from having to offset the people who don't pay. They also wouldn't be so bad if health insurance for "working poor" were more affordable. In 2012 I ruptured an Achilles tendon. Had this not happened at work, had the boss not had workman's comp, I could walk properly again or be financially solvent, but not both. I have no idea what it cost because I never personally saw any kind of bill, but shudder to think.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
So if I understand this correctly, this will make it possible for people that are already ass-over-teakettle in debt to borrow more money?

Well yes, but actually no. Buying cars or homes one can't actually afford, running up credit card debt, etc. are choices. If you have an illness or injury that needs medical help, that's not a choice.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
The medical billing system is totally out of control. Go to the ER, spend 2 hours mostly waiting, no XR or any procedure, come out owning $13,000. There is a problem with the system, and greed is the culprit.

Taking med billing away from credit score is fair and reasonable. No need to ruin someone's life because the med system is so flawed.

I agree, but this proposal seems to treat the symptom rather than the problem. Changing the totally fucked medical system would do more good than just attacking the debt. However, that is a much more difficult, complicated, and politically charged problem to fix. The suggested debt measure is just an easier way to get votes.

For those who are up in arms about this, did you read the article? It says right at the top: they're removing things that had been sent to collections but later paid off and debts of under $500.

There's no "you gotta pay what you owe" here. It's just removing the stain of being sent to collections from your credit report and minor debts owed.

This is hardly Bernie Sanders "cancel all the debts" stuff. Seems very reasonable and measured, especially because, as posters here have noted from personal experience, medical billing is fucked up and can get sent to collections without ever receiving a bill (the post in this thread indicating that isn't the first I've heard of that phenomenon).

Agreed but good luck getting our inept Congress to actually fix something. We are lucky to be getting a "stop moving the clocks twice a year" bill.

Sometimes you take an aspirin and hope for the best because it is all you have.

While it seems worse now, we've had crazy differences in clinic/hospital costs for quite a few years. Back when people had insurance with copays, I think most tolerated it as the numbers they saw on the bills didn't affect them. If you had a good doctor that gave you good advice and helped you out when you needed it, it may have been worth it.

It's different now. Doctors have told me they must follow the clinic/hospital protocol for everything or they will be fired. That means based on that protocol and your insurance, many options that might be best for you aren't mentioned. Between pharma pushing their latest drugs and clinic/hospital protocols, care isn't a priority. Good doctors and others may do their best to help people, but they say their hands are mostly tied. Add to this high deductible plans where any doctor visit costs $150 to $600 plus much more for any tests.

What options does one have? A small set of doctors and 'clinics' don't accept any insurance and instead charge flat prices for things or use a membership plan. Maybe you pay $3000/year to see a doctor when needed without any insurance. It's not a hospital, but it may be cheaper than a few network visits. Other's put off seeing getting help unless it's severe or use alternative clinics and try to solve things themselves.

^^^^^^^^^^
Concierge practices are one alternative. Another is using physicians in independent practice. They have hospital privileges but make their own decisions.

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
For those who are up in arms about this, did you read the article? It says right at the top: they're removing things that had been sent to collections but later paid off and debts of under $500.

There's no "you gotta pay what you owe" here. It's just removing the stain of being sent to collections from your credit report and minor debts owed.

This is hardly Bernie Sanders "cancel all the debts" stuff. Seems very reasonable and measured, especially because, as posters here have noted from personal experience, medical billing is fucked up and can get sent to collections without ever receiving a bill (the post in this thread indicating that isn't the first I've heard of that phenomenon).

Bingo, well said. Moreover, medical billing is overinflated so they can cover those who don't pay and write off the rest. If you're one of the poor schmucks caught in that racket you'll understand what a shitshow it is and why having a blemish on your credit has nothing to do with if you pay your bills or not.


As far as I'm concerned anything in collections that gets paid off should be taken off the credit report. I know people who got hosed on their mortgage rates because there was a $70 collection for an unpaid cable bill from when they moved or an old cell phone bill that was sent to collections because they switched carriers. I've had bills sent to the wrong address, especially now that I'm here in PR. Is it fair to have a mark on my credit because the billing dept couldn't send the bill to the right address?

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
Changing the totally fucked medical system would do more good than just attacking the debt. However, that is a much more difficult, complicated, and politically charged problem to fix.

One might as well try to re-wire a satellite that's in Earth orbit by standing on a step ladder.

Several months ago, I got tired of my having a hard time breathing and made an appointment. Clinic sent me to a hospital based one. Doctor saw me for a few minutes, scheduled me for four tests. I got the first two, my copay was nearly $4,000.

The doctor has left that hospital, I haven't gotten the other tests as that copay will be about $8,000.

I still don't know why I'm having a hard time drawing breath. Ultrasound and bubble test showed nothing.

Next month will be my last payment, and I have nothing to show for it. At least the hospital got some shiny new equipment on my dime, I guess.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
You must have some of the worst insurance imaginable. At least some conditions were ruled out.

quote:

Originally posted by Ironbutt:
IF we ever get a Conservative, fiscally responsible person in the White House, and a Conservative majority in Congress, just imagine the pushback, protests, riots, etc that are going to happen, when they try to fix all the woke bullcrap like this. IF

It makes no difference who is in the White House. The American medical system is fucked and it will never be fixed, at least not in your lifetime or mine. Nothing to do with being 'woke' and everything to do with money.

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
For those who are up in arms about this, did you read the article? It says right at the top: they're removing things that had been sent to collections but later paid off and debts of under $500.

There's no "you gotta pay what you owe" here. It's just removing the stain of being sent to collections from your credit report and minor debts owed.

This is hardly Bernie Sanders "cancel all the debts" stuff. Seems very reasonable and measured, especially because, as posters here have noted from personal experience, medical billing is fucked up and can get sent to collections without ever receiving a bill (the post in this thread indicating that isn't the first I've heard of that phenomenon).

Thanks for posting that and makes a lot more sennse than what a lot are assuming in that if ALL medical debts would be removed as that would mean almost no one would pay their medical bills any more and just throw them in the garbage causing medical providers and insurance companies to further raise their rates.

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
For those who are up in arms about this, did you read the article? It says right at the top: they're removing things that had been sent to collections but later paid off and debts of under $500.

There's no "you gotta pay what you owe" here. It's just removing the stain of being sent to collections from your credit report and minor debts owed.

This is hardly Bernie Sanders "cancel all the debts" stuff. Seems very reasonable and measured, especially because, as posters here have noted from personal experience, medical billing is fucked up and can get sent to collections without ever receiving a bill (the post in this thread indicating that isn't the first I've heard of that phenomenon).

I agree with you. Otherwise no one would pay a medical bill and unlike what many people seem to think most Doctors are not making the kind of money you think they are.

Those who can pay get raked. Those that can't or won't skate. I have used almost $1M is medical services the past 15 years. Big bills. 15 years ago my out of pocket was $2k. Reasonable. Then it was 3K, then 5K, not $7500. Pretty much every year or every other I hit the full deductible. For me, I don't mind as I am way ahead of the game. Thank god I can afford the deductibles of MY VERY GOOD INSURANCE. I prefer to pay more to get the choice of who I want treating me or performing surgery on me. I could get cheaper coverage but it would limit me to non-English speaking doctors.

The system is fucked up for sure. Don't know what the answer is.

I work with lots of poor folks on Medicaid. Never once heard one of them complain about the cost of their meds or treatment because they never see a bill. Plenty of them still get refills on meds they used once years ago and never again. They don't care. Ain't their money. Hell, some of them even get free bus passes to go to the doctor.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
I work with lots of poor folks on Medicaid. Never once heard one of them complain about the cost of their meds or treatment because they never see a bill. Plenty of them still get refills on meds they used once years ago and never again. They don't care. Ain't their money. Hell, some of them even get free bus passes to go to the doctor.

Well, some of us pay our bills, and these past couple of years, medical costs have just about drained my bank account. All my life, I've done my best to maintain a good credit rating and I'll be damned if I'm gonna turn into a deadbeat towards the end of it. I'm gonna make it to the end without a divorce and I'm gonna make it to the end without declaring bankruptcy.

I just don't have any sympathy whatsoever for hospital systems. They've made sure of that. I mentioned not too long ago that these sons o' bitches were calling me in advance of the due date on my monthly bill with them. Calling me when nothing was overdue and when I've never missed even a single payment! Now explain that kind of shit to me. No, really- explain to me what the fuck is wrong with these people to behave that way. A perfect payment history is cause for them to essentially harass me with voice mails. This makes no sense to me. I put a stop to it, though. They don't call me anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

Well, some of us pay our bills, and these past couple of years, medical costs have just about drained my bank account. All my life, I've done my best to maintain a good credit rating and I'll be damned if I'm gonna turn into a deadbeat towards the end of it. I'm gonna make it to the end without a divorce and I'm gonna make it to the end without declaring bankruptcy.
[/QUOTE]

I live the same way and I try to do the right thing when no one is looking. But think about it. When you're in your late 70s, your credit score is more a matter of personal pride than anything else. You're not gonna buy a house, probably won't take out a car loan, already have all your credit cards (if any) and, well, no one is personally and really gonna care if you walk away from a total BS medical bill. It's not a judgment of your character.

I was on an appt. last week with a 76 yr old woman who was on hold with TitleMax. She had a $3k title loan with them on a car that was totaled a year ago and with no insurance. They wanted her to pay $400/mo. She could only afford $100/mo. I told her to hang up and walk. They'd already made their money back on her, she was in Section 8 housing, on SSI, had no assets, didn't need a car, was never gonna buy a house, wasn't ever gonna get a credit card. She was judgment-proof. Why stress over TitleMax getting their usurious rate out of her? Walk and sleep well at night. Does anyone here feel sorry for insurance companies and hospitals?