I have had this done twice for rotator cuff issues.

Effects was within minutes and it was 100 percent effective. First shot lasted 15 years, so I was pretty pleased

Virtually no side effects or other downside I could see.

Would give it a try before surgery.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
I just had a second injection into my R shoulder a week or so ago. I got a torn rotator cuff (supraspinatus) and am trying to avoid surgery. I got relief for quite a few months, and the second was 8 months after the first, but I’ll admit it had been hurting for a few weeks. I’ve been working hard to rehab the shoulder and strengthen the other three muscles that make up the rotator cuff.

Is the pain gone? No, but it’s much better, and if I’m careful about what I do when working out, it doesn’t hurt at all (trying to do military press set me back).

I tore the Labrum in each shoulder (gym). 2 contributing factors as it wasn’t form or weight (although I do lift on the heavier than most). Age, and T levels drop due to age. One shoulder was a bankart repair and I had to have the surgery done on it, 3 anchors. The other was a SLAP tear and my ortho injected both with stem cells before the bankart surgery. I did PT like it was life and death, as well as diet and came back into the gym in a timeline that would be compared to a pro athlete. Within 6 months the stem cell injection to the SLAP tear, that Labrum healed, no surgery required on that shoulder. I had shoulder surgery in something like June 2019, full weight lifting like normal by November and the SLAP tear was 100% healed by December when I got another MRI done on it.

June of last year I tore a tendon in my dominant arm. It’s on the top of the forearm just in front of your elbow. It controls your finger movement and hand dexterity so to me it’s the worst tendon in the body to tear. Ortho injected it with old school stem cells (embryonic fluid or whatever), then cortisone injection a month later, and cleared me back to the gym. After about a month back in the gym I could feel the pain coming back, MRI confirmed that I had tore it again, and it was barely attached. I should have given the cells more time and stayed out of the gym but I thought I was good and so did my ortho. Instead of just a XRay we got the MRI and confirmed it. I had to buy plastic cutlery as it was painful to even hold a metal fork, spoon, etc. Did a PRP injection and stayed out of the gym which was extremely difficult. Did a MRI check after a few months and the PRP was working but just slow. But I still resisted surgery. They put a screw into badly torn tendons and you never know if your arm will be the same. When I got that MRI showing some healing the ortho asked me if I would be interested in being the guinea pig again. He said he was ordering some exosomes (synthetic stem cells) from Canada. He said they were being implemented with great success and he was hopeful this would be the way and keep me from surgery. I had to wait for the importation, he did the painful injection once he got them in, and a MRI in July confirmed that the tendon was 100% healed, but it had also doubled in size to boot. This was only after about 3-4 months of the exosomes going to work. I went back to the gym starting at the beginning of August of this year. One of the worst years of my life. Careful to not put anything in your hand of any weight, ice, TENS machine, more ice. It was the sitting around, stuck at home for a year, that drove me nuts. At least when I had Labrum surgery I was in PT 6 weeks later, had exercises to do, etc. This time it was just no weight and sit at home, for a damn year.

The first time I used stem cells was 6 or so years ago. I tore the tendon that attaches the bicep to the forearm. I was curling, going to failure, and it didn’t hurt but felt like a rubber band in the arm went from full strength to completely loose like a rubber band you’d been carrying in your pocket around cash, cards, etc, for 5 years. MRI confirmed it was torn. He did the stem cells and while it took 11 months to fully heal, it did. Ortho said, 100%, surgery would have resulted in my arm never being the same. Not with that tendon.

So three times in all those cells have kept me from surgery. This isn’t my ortho or anything but I googled and he has a little write up on the various things I listed above, and their benefits. https://www.drdavidchao.com/pr...egulate%20themselves.

Our wonderful FDA still won’t approve them for use in the US so you have to pay out of pocket for them, which really pisses me off, but it’s better than surgery and a fuck ton cheaper. They are a God send for joints and tendons. They’ve kept me from 3 different surgeries thus far and I would not even hesitate for a second about using them again when/if I have knee issues, etc. I finally admitted defeat at 50 and also got on TRT which I think was a contributing factor (T levels going down due to age). I had been reading, researching, etc for years and my ortho brought up TRT 6 or so years ago when I tore the bicep tendon. I hate needles so I put it off but now TRT is accepted as a therapy by most insurance companies so the weekly dose is $10 because of insurance coverage. Sucks getting old but I’m fighting it and I’m back in the gym. I just cut the weight across the board about 25% and I do more reps now. And for the first time in a long time I’m optimistic about NOT being back in that got damn MRI machine any time soon. I saw some videos of that Kennedy guy that admitted defeat and joined Trump. He’s in his 70’s, and has been on TRT for years and he’s doing pretty damn well for in his 70’s.
https://youtu.be/7PWKmPmYGQw?si=vGx4IRMMCDFHXMHe

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
I tore the Labrum in each shoulder (gym). 2 contributing factors as it wasn’t form or weight (although I do lift on the heavier than most). Age, and T levels drop due to age. One shoulder was a bankart repair and I had to have the surgery done on it, 3 anchors. The other was a SLAP tear and my ortho injected both with stem cells before the bankart surgery. I did PT like it was life and death, as well as diet and came back into the gym in a timeline that would be compared to a pro athlete. Within 6 months the stem cell injection to the SLAP tear, that Labrum healed, no surgery required on that shoulder. I had shoulder surgery in something like June 2019, full weight lifting like normal by November and the SLAP tear was 100% healed by December when I got another MRI done on it…

… They [stem cells] are a God send for joints and tendons. They’ve kept me from 3 different surgeries thus far and I would not even hesitate for a second about using them again when/if I have knee issues, etc. I finally admitted defeat at 50 and also got on TRT which I think was a contributing factor (T levels going down due to age). I had been reading, researching, etc for years and my ortho brought up TRT 6 or so years ago when I tore the bicep tendon. I hate needles so I put it off but now TRT is accepted as a therapy by most insurance companies so the weekly dose is $10 because of insurance coverage. Sucks getting old but I’m fighting it and I’m back in the gym.

You’re hard core, large bore, brother. Fighting the good fight. I wasn’t able to work out for years because of serious issues with my spine. C-spine surgery, posterior approach, July of 2020. Fused from C2 - T1. Laminectomy C3 - C6, partial at C7. Fully successful.

Lumbar spine surgery in January of this year. Fused L4/L5. Finally, after healing I feel good enough to work out again. I keep upping my game as I gain strength. I passed that threshold where the workout becomes fun and something to look forward to. I felt for you listing your injuries and long periods of inactivity. I don’t have to tell you that injury, when you’re enjoying your workouts is tough—-breaking that inertia all over again sucks.

You went to a lot of trouble outlining your injuries and Txs, I appreciate the trouble you went to and I’m confident others here will get something out of it too. Thanks, T

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:

You went to a lot of trouble outlining your injuries and Txs, I appreciate the trouble you went to and I’m confident others here will get something out of it too. Thanks, T

Thank you sir. Yes, very much trying to help. The more we get patients pounding their Orthos about this, the more it will be available and for lower costs. I remember after I did the first injection I came across a video of Mel Gibson discussing his father. He flew him to Panama to get stem cell injections and it saved his life. He got them in the hip and via IV.
https://youtu.be/uUCJo1j0S9s?si=LpmE52D_qvOCZyH0
That damn video is over 6 years old.

I don’t watch Rogan regularly or anything but he’s discussed this very thing with several guests and it mirrors my own experience.
https://youtu.be/3Ugp4--qrCY?si=SzNqlzpac_dggRpn
The guest and Joe both, discuss the labrum in the shoulder, how difficult it is to get blood in there to repair, etc, and watching that is like discussing my very own experience doing the same thing, I talk about it like them, almost verbatim. The advancements since my first and this last with exosomes, is night and day, yet the FDA sits standstill.

Anesthesia is nothing more than a controlled coma. And they make you sign that form, before going under, that reads to me like this “Well if we kill you we have to cover our ass”. I hate going into the coma, detest surgery, and the machine that is in place. If a needle shot of stems solves your problems, with just the pain of the injection itself, then why isn’t this available in every major city at a low cost? F’in FDA clowns! They don’t even need embryonic fluid anymore. They make them synthetically.

The only hardcore things I’ve done is deal with the injections themselves. Some are more painful than others. And I did get advised after labrum surgery of the nerve block going away, and how I needed to set a timer every 4 hours and if I missed one dose, I’d be in a world of hurt. Groggy from the coma I said Ok, got my ride home. I took the script, twice. Hated how it made me feel. With no clue what the generic name meant I googled it, sure enough, generic oxy. I said “fuck this shit” and threw it in the trash. Nerve block wore off and I just dealt with it. Just rotated my ice packs and would freeze the thing to get to sleep. When I told my ortho about this later for my visit, he said “You must really like pain.” I said, actually, no, I do not, I just don’t like oxy, at all. Never prescribe me that shit again.


Good luck and health.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

So three times in all those cells have kept me from surgery. This isn’t my ortho or anything but I googled and he has a little write up on the various things I listed above, and their benefits. https://www.drdavidchao.com/pr...egulate%20themselves.

Our wonderful FDA still won’t approve them for use in the US so you have to pay out of pocket for them, which really pisses me off, but it’s better than surgery and a fuck ton cheaper. They are a God send for joints and tendons. They’ve kept me from 3 different surgeries thus far and I would not even hesitate for a second about using them again when/if I have knee issues, etc. I finally admitted defeat at 50 and also got on TRT which I think was a contributing factor (T levels going down due to age). I had been reading, researching, etc for years and my ortho brought up TRT 6 or so years ago when I tore the bicep tendon. I hate needles so I put it off but now TRT is accepted as a therapy by most insurance companies so the weekly dose is $10 because of insurance coverage. Sucks getting old but I’m fighting it and I’m back in the gym. I just cut the weight across the board about 25% and I do more reps now. And for the first time in a long time I’m optimistic about NOT being back in that got damn MRI machine any time soon. I saw some videos of that Kennedy guy that admitted defeat and joined Trump. He’s in his 70’s, and has been on TRT for years and he’s doing pretty damn well for in his 70’s.
https://youtu.be/7PWKmPmYGQw?si=vGx4IRMMCDFHXMHe

A couple questions;
1. If knees are bone on bone and cartilage is gone, do the cell injections help or rebuild cartilage?

2. Any bad side effects from the TRT?
Hair loss, acne, a short temper, etc.?

Thanks..

quote:

Originally posted by goose5:

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:


Two questions for you, goose. Do you have an accurate diagnosis of the issue with your knee?

Did you discuss whether or not PT might be beneficial with the physician who gave you the injection?

Diagnosis is from 4 xrays taken in the ER. This all started in the middle of July. Walking across the kitchen floor when a bolt out of the blue, stop you in your tracks, holler out loud pain hit. Couldn't put any weight on it. That level of pain so fast I had to have torn something. I was on crutches for 2 days. In the shower I was trying to figure out how to get out without putting any weight on it. I swung my bad leg out first. I reached down and tried to support my weight with my hands on the tub. That didn't work but I discovered with my knee bent it didn't hurt when I put weight on it. I was able to hobble around without crutches after that, but altering my walk started other muscles hurting from being used in a different way. Yes, the NP did mention PT, but he didn't think I'd have time to do that and work a full day. What they told me was arthritis and joint degeneration. Voltaren doesn't touch it. He said if the pain persists an MRI is the next step. If things remain at the level they are now I can work. I have good days and bad, but I can get by. The last three days I was able to make it through the day without ibuprofen or my knee brace. I told him just keep me in the game for another 2 years. At that time if I'm a candidate for surgery or replacement we'll cross that bridge.

+1 on the altered walking and stance,

tore my miniscus in my left knee maybe 3 yrs ago, not a candidate for surgery, nor replacement needed, just a tear,
did some PT (home based) But probably not what was needed, (doc gave me a plan, niece is a PT doc and did the same) and wore a brace for almost a year,

he did give me a shot in that knee that did help, took about a week or 2 with advil, and ice packs but it did help,
never did get a 2nd, but am contemplating going in for one,

pretty sure I tore the miniscus in my right knee afterwards,



oddly enough, a neck issue got me a small dose prednisone, which made everything stop hurting, but when that wore off, jumping jiminey crickets, my right knee now hurts worse than it ever did, but I can still get around,

Voltaren (pill and cream) does ok for me, the pill takes the edge off, but I only take it sparingly, (3-4 a month, ) and use the cream once or twice a week,



hope you find a way to ease the hurts

quote:

Originally posted by 1lowlife:
A couple questions;
1. If knees are bone on bone and cartilage is gone, do the cell injections help or rebuild cartilage?

2. Any bad side effects from the TRT?
Hair loss, acne, a short temper, etc.?

Thanks..

1. I believe so. They are using stems to repair discs in the back so I would think the same would be applied to cartilage. They also use it for hips injecting right into the hip. I would suggest doing a lot of google fu, and looking for YT videos on the subject specific to your issue. My expertise is labrums, and tendons but I’ve read on knee, hip, shoulders, all being repaired with this medical/science. But I’m not a doctor or ortho surgeon so push yours for answers, and do a lot of research. That’s what I did.

2. No, none of that. TRT is not like the doses body builders abuse steroids for. Those you listed are all symptoms of high dose of T, which I would consider abuse. TRT, you’re on a low level, 1/2cc to 1cc. No hair loss, no acne/backne, temper the same. It’s a therapy used to get your T levels back to optimum, of say your 25 to 35 year old self. What got me over the hump was seeing all the issues low T causes as you age. It’s a long list and I’d rather press skip to all. My T levels weren’t, say incredibly low, just lower than optimum consider the training I do, and the sports I’m into. I attribute all my injuries, to having lower T than my workouts and sports require. I finally relented and got on it with this latest tendon tear as I’m tired of the stoppages in my life, tired of the MRI machine, and the long recovery periods. Oh and I should mention, the wife will be happier too.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

quote:

Originally posted by 1lowlife:
A couple questions;
1. If knees are bone on bone and cartilage is gone, do the cell injections help or rebuild cartilage?

2. Any bad side effects from the TRT?
Hair loss, acne, a short temper, etc.?

Thanks..

1. I believe so. They are using stems to repair discs in the back so I would think the same would be applied to cartilage. They also use it for hips injecting right into the hip. I would suggest doing a lot of google fu, and looking for YT videos on the subject specific to your issue. My expertise is labrums, and tendons but I’ve read on knee, hip, shoulders, all being repaired with this medical/science. But I’m not a doctor or ortho surgeon so push yours for answers, and do a lot of research. That’s what I did.

2. No, none of that. TRT is not like the doses body builders abuse steroids for. Those you listed are all symptoms of high dose of T, which I would consider abuse. TRT, you’re on a low level, 1/2cc to 1cc. No hair loss, no acne/backne, temper the same. It’s a therapy used to get your T levels back to optimum, of say your 25 to 35 year old self. What got me over the hump was seeing all the issues low T causes as you age. It’s a long list and I’d rather press skip to all. My T levels weren’t, say incredibly low, just lower than optimum consider the training I do, and the sports I’m into. I attribute all my injuries, to having lower T than my workouts and sports require. I finally relented and got on it with this latest tendon tear as I’m tired of the stoppages in my life, tired of the MRI machine, and the long recovery periods. Oh and I should mention, the wife will be happier too.

Thanks for the feedback.

Both my shoulder and knee doctors assure me any kind of injection will not rebuild cartilage.
It doesn't regenerate, once it is gone, it is gone, so they say.

I get annual physicals and get my T levels checked, they are usually higher than they need to be.
But I'm always tired, little motivation, I'll look into it.
As far as the wife being happier, she would be happier if I didn't want to monkey around, she has her own health issues going on.

Both of us finding out at 60+, getting old sucks..

quote:

Oh and I should mention, the wife will be happier too.

I got out of bed one morning and my knee hurt so bad I couldn't put any weight on it . Went to the Ortho Dr on crutches . Xray said no bone on bone yet . Arthritis . Gave me an injection . Relief was quick but it didn't last . Got another one , same result . Gave me another injection of something different . Same result. It finally started to taper off and today there is no pain . It's been a year at least . Weird . I don't abuse it though . Cardiologist wanted me to run on the treadmill . Nope , not happening . I'm not going to take a chance on agravating the knee .