quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
So, you look at incidents like this and can’t figure out why having everything electric is a bad idea? Electric cars dont go real far without electricity.

That and this shows the system is too fragile for much additional load.

Honestly, I wasn't sure if you were referring to EVs or if you mistyped electric instead of renewables and you were referring to the power company's reliance on renewable energy since that's what the immediate previous posts were discussing.

Since it was EVs, ICE cars don't go real far without gas either which doesn't get pumped without electricity.

But yes, having all your eggs in one basket can be problematic either way.

I have gas in jugs in my garage. I have a large diesel tank out back. During times of crisis, my vehicles run just fine without being slaved to an outlet.

I can run for quite a while without electricity if I have to.

In 2009, I was without electricity for most of February and all of March. Once in a Century ice storm. I learned the lesson then about being all electric sucks. I had gas heat in freezing temperatures when my all electric neighbors didn’t.

Induced Atmospheric Vibration . That's a new on me and I spent my entire career in the electric utility world . Most of it in HV transmission . Is it real ? Maybe so but why has it taken over 60 yrs for me to hear about it ?

what people fail to realize is that you need to avail yourself of all kinds of energy infrastructure, not just the stuff that the enviro-whacks think is the only way to go

Nuclear is the best as a base but then you take PV, coal, gas and others to round it out.

Putting all your hopes and dreams on one thing is foolhardy

And foolhardy is what the Europeans (save the French of all people) have been. Germany is the worst, because its commitment to Net Zero insanity is resulting in the de-industrialization of the country, the end of their dominant industries and thereby their economy. Spain apparently has gone along, relying to a dangerous degree on solar power.

We would have continued along that catastrophic trend line if Trump had not been elected.

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
Induced Atmospheric Vibration . That's a new on me and I spent my entire career in the electric utility world . Most of it in HV transmission . Is it real ? Maybe so but why has it taken over 60 yrs for me to hear about it ?

LOL, yes this is highly amusing. Pretty obvious to those of us in the business of High Voltage transmission, this is a completely farcical excuse.
All these “green energy” resources (generation) are what is called “Inverter based”. 100% of their generation passes through inverters to reach the electrical grid. Here in the western US there have been major events caused by these inverter based resources tripping off line. Some of electrical engineers will argue that the spinning mass argument is incorrect, that it all really comes down to is MW’s. The issue is these green resources carry 0 reserves “typically”, they are run “all or nothing”. So there is no response available to a drop in generation. Plus the controls and relaying for this inverter technology is still developing ( learning from their mistakes). The controls and relaying for conventional steam/ combustion turbine generators is very mature. Frequency oscillation is controlled and dampened all day long. Spain’s electric grid just experienced how well all these inverters work with each other during a frequency oscillation event combined with under generation.

A few years ago I represented an employer in a labor issue case and the plaintiff was actually a decent person. I had access to his personnel file and he had a very interesting 3 letter federal agency history in many parts of the world.

His current occupation (at the time) was cybersecurity and after the case was over, I was talking to him about his current thoughts on NK or Iran detonating a device in the US.

While that was a concern he was dealing with for my client and how to secure electronic cyberstructure, he wasn't all that concerned with those possibilities. He acknowledged that any terrorist or rogue country could set off a dirty bomb of sorts in the US or any Western country but the real goal of NK and Iran is disrupt the electrical grid.

He said they those countries have been working on delivering an EMP weapon for some time but they have launch issues. A missile, he says, will never get to the US but a high altitude EMP is their best chance.

Why is that significant? Because, as he said, the only difference between daily living in the Western world and those countries is electricity. Electricity is what gives us life and if that's taken away, we are on an even playing field.

Securing and hardening the electrical grid is the ultimate goal and government works off the principle that electricity in large cities needs to be restored within 72 hours or less otherwise there will be mass looting and riots. It might be as little as 24 to 48 hours in some locations.

quote:

Securing and hardening the electrical grid is the ultimate goal and government works off the principle that electricity in large cities needs to be restored within 72 hours or less otherwise there will be mass looting and riots. It might be as little as 24 to 48 hours in some locations.

In the event a major power loss happens - an immediate "authorization to use lethal force" and "shoot to kill" order for all looters in the only thing that will keep cities from slipping into anarchy. Anything less and the ferals rule........

^^^
To an extent, we in the burbs or rural areas already have something like a plan for such devolution. Guns, generators, the ability to live off the land, neighbors that for the most part could be trusted (roving bandits are not neighbors obviously). The cities, however, would be a true nightmare. It really would be the law of the jungle with no authority being able to do squat about it.

quote:

He said they those countries have been working on delivering an EMP weapon for some time but they have launch issues. A missile, he says, will never get to the US but a high altitude EMP is their best chance.

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that's accurate? The US has ABM (anti-ballistic missile) "capability", but to my knowledge, it's not deployed to a great enough extent to be all that effective. I don't disagree with his sentiment regarding EMP's, but I don't think I would use the word "never" in either context.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
^^^
To an extent, we in the burbs or rural areas already have something like a plan for such devolution. Guns, generators, the ability to live off the land, neighbors that for the most part could be trusted (roving bandits are not neighbors obviously). The cities, however, would be a true nightmare. It really would be the law of the jungle with no authority being able to do squat about it.

This is extremely true.

The more I talked to this guy, the more he opened up about the harm he and the employer were working to avoid and that's the safe harbor of documents and vital information through making sure the electrical grid wasn't vulnerable.

But if it's breached through an EMP or other means and the US goes to shit, on a temporary basis, I asked him what his personal plans were. He said if this goes on in L.A. for more than a day there will looting and lawlessness. He lived in a rural area and his plan, said in plain English, was that he knows his neighbors and they know him. They know who doesn't belong and if you don't belong, eyes will be watching you.

His plan is simple - If you don't live there and you're causing mayhem, trying to break into homes, stealing and have disregard for human life, he said he'd just shoot them where they stood and let them lay there.

In a few days the smell would get bad and there would be disease to contend with but the smell of rotten human flesh has its own deterrence factor, in addition to seeing corpses.

I asked him how much ammo he thought would be necessary for this limited scenario and he replied that it would be less than 1k. He said he had enough food and water to more than get by, he wasn't taking it to the streets to take on looters but was just going to stay at home, maybe go to the neighbors and certainly not go on the offensive.

He was awfully confident and sure of his assessment to the point where he simply wouldn't give a fuck if the shit happened.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:

quote:

He said they those countries have been working on delivering an EMP weapon for some time but they have launch issues. A missile, he says, will never get to the US but a high altitude EMP is their best chance.

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that's accurate? The US has ABM (anti-ballistic missile) "capability", but to my knowledge, it's not deployed to a great enough extent to be all that effective. I don't disagree with his sentiment regarding EMP's, but I don't think I would use the word "never" in either context.

I don't know why but he was adamant that a missile fired from NK or Iran would never hit US soil. He was very confident and knowing his background and what he did for my client, I have no doubt he was sincere in his belief and I have no reason to disbelieve him.

A high altitude EMP explosion would be devastating. We would put back in time and living like goat herders in Afghanistan. That was the outcome he saw if there was a successful explosion.

He went through the world history of large EMP events, including the Carrington Event of 1859, and the extrapolation to the modern world. He was very savvy and highly skilled at what he did. My client had the means to hire whoever they wanted for this series of tasks and they picked him.

They don't even need a missile. All they need is a weather balloon ...

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
^^^
To an extent, we in the burbs or rural areas already have something like a plan for such devolution. Guns, generators, the ability to live off the land, neighbors that for the most part could be trusted (roving bandits are not neighbors obviously). The cities, however, would be a true nightmare. It really would be the law of the jungle with no authority being able to do squat about it.

Skin a buck, run a trot line and whatnot

Good old fossil fuels to the rescue...again

NatGas Generators Rescued Spain From Net Zero Death After Power Collapse

https://x.com/JKempEnergy/status/1917557819739435282

This is exactly why we prep! I have a 3500W dual fuel generator, 1kwh and 245wh solar generator. Is it perfect, no. Will I survive a lot better than others in a grid outage, definitely.

I've done the same, the grid will be the first thing to go. I have everything purchased and am starting to install, 29k kwh of output as needed, 120k kw battery storage, and 20k kw solar input.

Just speculation, but Europe uses a lot of DC transmission. Just my 2 cents, but maybe they lost a pole, (+ or -) and that took out the entire grid. Anyway, it will be interesting to hear the cause. I too spent my entire career in HV transmission and distribution.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Good old fossil fuels to the rescue...again

NatGas Generators Rescued Spain From Net Zero Death After Power Collapse

https://x.com/JKempEnergy/status/1917557819739435282

WHAT? Just where did these gas fired electric plants magically appear from?

downtown post this on page 1:

"On April 16, Spain achieved 100% renewable generation on its power grid. Five days later, on April 21, solar set a new record, providing 78.6% of all generation on the grid.

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Seven days after that, Spain’s grid collapsed as it was generating 78% from combined wind and solar, and just a little over 3% with spinning baseload generation powered by natural gas."

A quick internet search says the reality is Spain's electricity comes from a variety of sources: hydroelectric, nuclear, coal plants, natural gas plants, solar, wind, etc. The same search says between 50% and 60% of Spain's electricity comes from renewable sources:

"Spain’s largest source of clean electricity is wind (22%), although solar (21%) and nuclear (20%) also have similar shares. Its share of wind and solar (43%) is well above the global average (15%).

Spain relied on fossil fuels for 23% of its electricity in 2024. Its emissions per capita were below the global average.

Spain’s power sector emissions fell in the last two decades due to growth in wind and solar replacing coal and gas.

Spain aims for 81% renewable electricity by 2030, which is above the global share of 60% renewable electricity set out in the IEA Net Zero Emissions scenario." Link

Major issues from back in 2012-13 with power in Spain. Much of the ‘renewable’ energy is propped up with government subsidies. It’s like a merry-go-round, same lessons over an over.

https://www.globalpolicyjourna...sidies-lessons-spain