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Odd plumbing issue....question for the experts
November 12, 2017, 06:47 PM
Jeff YarchinOdd plumbing issue....question for the experts
We are on a well if that matters. When I turn the cold water on in any of our faucets the water turns hot before it turns cold. This just started a few weeks ago.
I do have a hot water circulator installed on a timer but that seems to be working normally. That gives us almost instant hot water.
Any ideas?
November 12, 2017, 06:54 PM
MikeinNCThe hot water heater may be producing more hot water than you need and since the hot can't go anywhere unless you open a hot faucet tap; the hot water backs up into the cold side piping and sits there...
then you turn on the cold tap and that bit of backed up hot water gets sent to your now open faucet and then cold water behind that bit of hot water that was backed up into the cold piping
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texassierraI worked I a four story office building once that had supply pumps providing additional pressure for the upper floors. At night when there was hardly anyone in the building the cold water side would come out warm because the supply pumps just sit and churned that water. I'm guessing that your well pump should only run when there is demand. Is it possible that it's running constant for some reason?
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November 12, 2017, 06:56 PM
a1abdjHow long do the faucets sit before you use them? The water in the pipes is going to be room temperature if they sit, perhaps warmer if they are run along any heating ducts. Certainly not hot, but it will feel very warm.
When you run the water, you're going to get fresh cold shortly thereafter.
November 12, 2017, 06:58 PM
wreckdiverWhen the water heater is heating the water, it expands. If you have no hot water leaks it expands into the cold water line, thus you experience the warm water in a cold water line.
You can usually prevent this by putting an expansion tank on on your water heater, allowing a specific spot for the water to expand to.
I'm a plumber and have the same problem at my house, I just allow for it. Something about a cobbler's kid is the one without shoes.
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November 12, 2017, 07:01 PM
Jeff Yarchinquote:
Originally posted by a1abdj:
How long do the faucets sit before you use them? The water in the pipes is going to be room temperature if they sit, perhaps warmer if they are run along any heating ducts. Certainly not hot, but it will feel very warm.
When you run the water, you're going to get fresh cold shortly thereafter.
This is definitely hot, not warm.
November 12, 2017, 07:03 PM
Jeff Yarchinquote:
Originally posted by wreckdiver:
When the water heater is heating the water, it expands. If you have no hot water leaks it expands into the cold water line, thus you experience the warm water in a cold water line.
You can usually prevent this by putting an expansion tank on on your water heater, allowing a specific spot for the water to expand to.
I'm a plumber and have the same problem at my house, I just allow for it. Something about a cobbler's kid is the one without shoes.
Should I be concerned that this just started? The water heater is about 12 years old. With a house full of company coming for Thanksgiving...could the wh be getting ready to blow? :+)
Edited to add, it is an electric water heater.
November 12, 2017, 07:03 PM
Jeff YarchinThanks all!
November 12, 2017, 07:04 PM
Jeff Yarchinquote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
The hot water heater may be producing more hot water than you need and since the hot can't go anywhere unless you open a hot faucet tap; the hot water backs up into the cold side piping and sits there...
then you turn on the cold tap and that bit of backed up hot water gets sent to your now open faucet and then cold water behind that bit of hot water that was backed up into the cold piping
Thanks Mike
November 12, 2017, 07:27 PM
wreckdiverWe have been I our house since '99, and it just started after I changed the cold water storage tanks for the well. Pressures were preset on the tanks properly this time, maybe not so much last time.
Let it run, I really don't think you have anything to worry about.
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"Once abolish the God, and the Government becomes the God." --- G.K. Chesterton
November 12, 2017, 09:25 PM
jimmy123xIt sounds to me like you have a mixing valve at a fixture going bad allowing hot water to leak over into the cold side......for example if you have a shower head that you can shut off at the shower head and leave the cold valve open and hot valve open, when one flows the other can/will flow into that side.....
November 12, 2017, 09:47 PM
jeffxjetIf you have a recirculator, then you also have a mixing valve somewhere located as far from the water heater as possible connecting the hot line to the cold line. This mixer is thermostatically controlled, when the circulator kicks in, the cold water in the hot line goes through the mixer into the cold line returning to the water heater inlet side. As soon as the mixer senses hot water(varies by device) the mixer closes off and stops sending hot water to the cold side. The appliance where the mixer is located always gets warm water from cold before the cold. If you are getting hot, I would suspect the mixing valve is going bad.
Have you located the mixing valve? Is there hot water coming out of the cold at every appliance? Is the appliance closest to the water heater getting the same treatment? The fixture closest to the water heater should be getting the least amount of return hot water, if you are getting it here the mixer is definitely going bad.
Here is a link for the mixing valve, what you should be looking for.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Gru...EEAQYAiABEgJIwfD_BwE
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November 13, 2017, 03:17 AM
WoodmanJimmy describes a "cross connection".
If you have a sink with individual H/C outlets, AND if the H/C outlets are tied together at the sink with a hose contraption, AND the hose contraption has an on/off valve at the end, AND you leave the H/C ON and shut the flow of water on and off by the valve at the end of the hose contraption, THEN you have a bona fide cross connection.
I rarely see them. A friend was called to a massage parlor years ago with a "no hot water complaint" ... But the water heater was firing up fine. He finally found a shower head with an on/off button on it. Staff jumped in for a quick rinse, hitting the shower head button instead of the actual shower valve. That shower head was the cross connection. Every time a toilet flushed or someone rinsed their dishes with cold water, hot was actually coming out. Hence the hot water running out (and if they bothered to check, a cold pipe feeling hot).
I've noticed more frequently the cold water feels warmer than it should. Now you've got me wondering about HW occupation of the CW piping. Guess when this WH fails I'll use an expansion tank on the replacement. Maybe.
November 13, 2017, 04:12 AM
syboCould it possibly be a back flow valve failure?
November 13, 2017, 05:54 AM
wreckdiverI should have mentioned that I have seen Moen single handle faucets create this problem too, but in those cases, the problem was constant. Extremely rare.
_________________________________________________
"Once abolish the God, and the Government becomes the God." --- G.K. Chesterton
November 13, 2017, 08:50 PM
jimmy123xquote:
Originally posted by Woodman:
Jimmy describes a "cross connection".
If you have a sink with individual H/C outlets, AND if the H/C outlets are tied together at the sink with a hose contraption, AND the hose contraption has an on/off valve at the end, AND you leave the H/C ON and shut the flow of water on and off by the valve at the end of the hose contraption, THEN you have a bona fide cross connection.
I rarely see them. A friend was called to a massage parlor years ago with a "no hot water complaint" ... But the water heater was firing up fine. He finally found a shower head with an on/off button on it. Staff jumped in for a quick rinse, hitting the shower head button instead of the actual shower valve. That shower head was the cross connection. Every time a toilet flushed or someone rinsed their dishes with cold water, hot was actually coming out. Hence the hot water running out (and if they bothered to check, a cold pipe feeling hot).
I've noticed more frequently the cold water feels warmer than it should. Now you've got me wondering about HW occupation of the CW piping. Guess when this WH fails I'll use an expansion tank on the replacement. Maybe.
I see it on the yachts I manage at least once a year......The aft deck has a shower handle with a spring loaded on/off for the water flow and has hot and cold.....people turn the valves on then never shut them off because the shower head is like the spray head on a kitchen sink and not flowing any water when you're not squeezing the handle. So they rinse off, dry off and forget to turn off.