While I always try to be aware of surroundings and vigilant, my wife is totally oblivious. I learned a long time ago that bringing it up just prompts a disagreement-fight. I try to think for both of us but realize that it is a hopeless case of “beating a dead horse” so to speak to promote further discussion.

This is a great thread and I have enjoyed the points and counterpoints. It has probably provoked thoughts and considerations by members of their own homes and driveways.

I am truly glad for the OP that things worked out well for him. I have no opinion to express because Monday morning quarter backing is just not something I will do. He can evaluate for the future and all of us can place value on the discussion based on our own circumstances.

I, like many above, thank the OP for bringing his experience up for discussion. Always good to be reminded to be vigilant and prepared, because too often, many of us become complacent.

All I can suggest is put forward and rear cameras in your vehicles.

And possibly a camera or sensor at the driveway entrance.

I have no criticism to give.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by ggile:
"you can go in your house now". I haven't seen any comments on why the female might have yelled this. It makes this incident sound like it's more personal and directed either at you or your daughter.

Normally, when spotted, the bad guys just take off.

I did about three posts up. I think they got offended when Underdog got suspicious and gave them the stink eye, hence the pissy "you can go in your house now" when they left.

That was my thought, some kids, parked, smoking, drinking, screwing, otherwise why say anything.

OP's reaction wasn't out of line, but it's good to read the conversations here, they make you think about what you did/do, and how to reassess the actions and plan for the future.

Interesting enough as we were pulling out to take the golf cart to the Grand daughters house someone unknown pulled past the house stopped and was on their phone behind the typical tinted windows. It was brand new Cadillac very nice, when we left made sure I drove behind it and past so they know we saw the plates.

One of the things thieves are doing is renting nice cars to cruise subdivisions and look for open doors, when people are gone, etc.

Nice or not nice neighborhood you have to pay attention.

Underdog quote:
It was not a car we had seen before and it had the "hood" look going on. Heavily tinted windows, gold, kind of beat up
***************************

By looking at the photos of your area that car was not from your neighborhood. Up to no good.

Glad to hear you and your daughter were unharmed. Stay sharp.
A good reminder to keep alert.

.

Glad the OP and his daughter are safe, and the input and discussion here on ‘tactics’ are priceless.

I recall a similar type of discussion here many years ago around a real-life active shooter situation at a mall or some other public area and the ideas and suggestions offered on ‘tactics’ then led me think about ‘what if’ it happened to me and what would I (try to) do.

I thought this was a great subject and all things considered, you did better than many would have.
Given the time to sit here and analyze it's easy to think of some specifics you might have changed but in the real world things don't unfold that way.
One thing that seemed to work reasonably well was having your family members react and seemingly have some sort of a plan.
This made me realize that I haven't really developed a plan in my home for this sort of event to have others act to call 911 while I am busy, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfpacker:
While I always try to be aware of surroundings and vigilant, my wife is totally oblivious. I learned a long time ago that bringing it up just prompts a disagreement-fight. I try to think for both of us but realize that it is a hopeless case of “beating a dead horse” so to speak to promote further discussion.

Sounds exactly like my situation. My kid WAS that way. Thankfully, they had seen stuff and now much more aware and proactive.

Possibly consider a low camera to catch faces and plates easier? Such as the one in link. Can be made more discrete if amongst landscape greenery.

https://www.leadingedgehome.co...oads/2013/04/2-1.jpg

My opinion is it was most likely some poor girl working for door dash or uber eats trying to find an address and you went into full mall ninja mode.
Better duct tape some more plates on your back!

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by ggile:
"you can go in your house now". I haven't seen any comments on why the female might have yelled this. It makes this incident sound like it's more personal and directed either at you or your daughter.

Normally, when spotted, the bad guys just take off.

I did about three posts up. I think they got offended when Underdog got suspicious and gave them the stink eye, hence the pissy "you can go in your house now" when they left.

I did on page 1. Mentioned possible Door Dash delivery too.

Underdog, I mentioned in my post that I would not have shown a weapon, and you later said that you had not. In your original you said: "At this point I turned on the light on the M-4 (holding at a low ready)." I assumed that it was visible, as why would you turn on the light if it wasn't for them to see. My apologies.

Thank you for posting this. The situation is complicated and gives us all a lot to think about. I get that some people would have done X, others Y, others Z. There is no way to know what the "best" way to handle this was, other than to say "Thank God you all are okay and we are free to depate with without someone hurt or worse."

Personally, I think you did okay (probably a lot better that I would have) under the circumstances and have a lot to think about for the future. When a woman broke into my house I had to do the same thing: think about what I did, how I can make sure it doesn't happen again, and how I can improve. This is why even SEALs debrief intensely, because the situation can always be improved upon review and reflection. The one thing that I would have done differently is call 911 immediately and stayed on the line. In my area the response time is about five minutes or less. I have no idea what it would have been in your area, but if you can call for help, there's nothing wrong with that.

As for the rest, think about the suggestions and adopt the ones that work, reject the ones that don't and plan so if this happens again you're better prepared. It sounds like you are doing that.

Other than call the police, I would strongly add to the previous advice of front and rear "dash" cameras.

Yes, 23 yrs LEO here, that car does not belong in that neighborhood, very likely doing BMV's or waiting on a easy mark . You should get with your GOOD neighbors and set up a watch for the next few weeks.

You're not paranoid. Had you been any less situationally aware, this could've ended badly.

Your daughter's response is impressive.

Glad you both are ok. I'd say stay in the car and drive on by when you see anything out of place. In my work car I pass and grab the plate then do a lap. In my personal car I grab a plate pass and do a lap. Might be good to talk to neighbors, someone may have a ring camera or something that picked up a plate or other info. If you haven't called I'd call and report it. It might put the pieces together for your local cops. I'll say this as a cop, I never mind going to roll a neighborhood so ask for someone to come by and take a look.

Glad you were carrying, bet you are too. Might have been doordash but might have been you changed their immediate plans when you flipped it on them a bit. Stay vigilant, put up some cameras and discuss it with your family so next time you guys have a plan. Also, do a morale check with your daughter.

Well, that whole situation was weird. You were absolutely correct to have the hairs on your neck stand up. Mine would have too.

Some observations, critiques, and points, and they are worth EXACTLY what you paid for them... But FWIW 13 years LE here, current Sgt on my Dept.

It is entirely possible that nefarious things were afoot and you avoided them. It is ALSO entirely possible that there was an innocent explanation for the events, and you terrified some innocent person who was lost or mistaken. Really, we will never know. I'm in the camp though, that you should err on the side of caution, which you did... with some mistakes.

First off, as someone who has been followed home (how THAT worked out is a story for long after I retire) by some hard core people you don't want to be followed home by... I can't blame you for your caution. I would have been creeped out also.

Now, it happens quick, but first off, and next time (and I certainly hope there isn't a next time) remember that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO HOME!!! I ALWAYS, I MEAN LITERALLY ALWAYS go past my own driveway. I drive all the way down the the cul de sac and turn around, and then go back to my house and park. For these reasons:

1. Anyone going down my dead end street is either going to turn into their own driveway or park on the street in front of their own house. If they follow me all the way down my street and then all the way back they are either lost, or following me, or have a Domino's sign on their car.

2. I get to pass them after I turn around and can see their car, use my bright lights to see their face and how many are in the car.

3. I spook them and they fuck off

4. I realize they are following me and have no idea there is no exit and have the option to block them in and have a conversation with them.

5. I drive them past not only my camera system that covers my driveway, my street and all my neighbors cameras.

So If you get that feeling that something isn't right... Trust it, it may not be right. Keep going. Especially if someone knows you, or your car, but doesn't know your address. Don't pull into the driveway and tell them the address. Not always an option because you may not realize it until after. Food for thought.

Next, I would NEVER split up and have your daughter leave your side, go around back, and into the house. What if it WAS targeted? Yeah, if you and your operator buddy were coming home, sure, split up. But that wasn't the case. You left he weak link on her own. Not judging her, but someone motivated to attack you could certainly use her against you. Don't split up unless the other person can defend themselves and has the tools to do so.

If you were going to call the police, you really missed your chance to. You should have called them right then and there, or better yet, your daughter should have. Maybe they were 20 mins away. Maybe an officer was patrolling your street and they were 20 seconds away. No idea. After the fact there isn't a thing they can do. As for a police report, what would they report? No crime was committed. Not even trespassing. They turned around in your driveway and drove off. In order for it to be a trespass, they would have to have stayed, you told them to leave and they refused. It doesn't meet the elements of the crime and no report would be written. We would pass the info, vehicle description, or plate number had you gotten one on to the guys/gals at roll call in case there were similar incidents (so you should have probably called them to pass on that info) but other than that, no crime.

As opposed to staying outside, I would have either retreated inside inside the house, because IF they had been up to no good, then YOU control the fatal funnel of the doors. Make yourself a difficult target. Meaning either get the good ground for defense, or move somewhere under the cover of darkness where they don't know you are and don't expect you and you can observe.

Lastly don't ever light them up with a weapon light until it's time. 1. You give away your position. If you can use darkness as a cover, or silhouette them you're winning. Don't give away your position. Now (at least here in MO, you would be legally covered, look at how much trouble people get into for brandishing weapons are people, like those McCloskey idiots that ran for .gov here in MO) I wouldn't be pointing a weapon at anyone unless I was damn sure they needed a weapon pointed at them. Obviously they knew you were there and they could see you.

Those hedges are not cover, they are concealment, and obviously not that much concealment seeing as they knew you were there. Those outside lights probably gave you away.

Lastly, DO NOT STAY IN THE CAR. If someone WAS trying to harm you, you're screwed if you stay in the car. A car is a very small area to spray with bullets and get someone. Get off the X and out of the car. Get into darkness, better yet concealment, and best cover. Then move to better.

I'm glad it ended up being nothing serious, other than weird.

Do you have outside cameras covering your property and entrances? If not, I'd get a Ring setup. I have all 4 sides of my house covered, and can view them live if I need. It costs about 10 dollars per month. Look into it.

Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
How many of us get tactical training weekly? Monthly? Ever? I think it's worth noting that most of us a regular guys with regular emotions. We mostly live in pacific conditions. So when an event like this happens, it is by surprise. How can anyone not in LE or military be expected to perform tactically brilliant with fear, panic, surprise, shock, disbelief, doubt etc. pressing against our decisions? I've been in a similar circumstance three times before. Each time I was more effective but still upon reconsideration, there were decisions that could have been better.

Bottom line, he and his family survived and the nefarious types went to find an easier target. No one had to land in court or the grave.

An excellent point, and if my response comes off as harsh, the I apologize and want your input right here to be mentioned. Most poeple NEVER think of this stuff, and more so, NEVER even have such an experience.

Good thread, although I'm sad it happened. It shouldn't. People should be safe in their own neighborhoods.

But, at least here, and I'm sure lots of other places, the shit bums are targeting "the good areas."

Groups of asshole criminals are driving 45 mins to a hour away to target neighborhoods they never did before. They are doing so to get soft targets. They steal a couple cars, and wreck havok on the communities. They steal guns, electronics, cash, briefcases, from unlocked cars in the suburbs because everyone thinks they live in a "safe" neighborhood that has never had crime.

We have 4 or 5 guns stolen EVERY NIGHT because these idiots have gotten complacent and don't even lock their car doors, house doors or close their garage doors anymore.

Guess where we are finding those guns in the following weeks/months????

Word has gotten around about soft targets. WHy go try to steal crap in the close areas that have been hit so often that the people know not to leave stuff accessible? Go steal it in the area where "stuff like this doesn't happen" and you have a target rich environment.

I've worked in areas of the city where it isn't safe to go without a rifle company and I have worked in the areas where the suburban population has their heads completely in the clouds. Guess what areas are being targeted now?

We have groups that have a crew walking down teh street breaking into cars, followed by a stolen car for the getaway and with another person running overwatch with an AR 15. And they will shoot at anyone who comes out of their house to stop them. I"m not talking one time occurrences... This happens weekly.

This is a seriously useful thread. Thanks to all who have opined.

quote:

Originally posted by Underdog:
I am 100% regretting my post now.

Don't regret it! I am grateful to read your experience and all the various viewpoints.

Whenever an event happens there are countless small details which you processed as it happened but which we across the internet cannot be aware of. The fact that you had a successful outcome means that you made the right choices in the moment.

From what you posted, it seems to me this was not an innocent situation. Probably some kind of carjacking or home invasion, and they were just waiting for whoever in your block came home first, and it happened to be you.

Multiple people in the car is not a lost Door Dash.

Always trust your gut! Something seemed off to you from the beginning, so it would have been irresponsible to ignore it and not take precautions. Sending your daughter into the house was you being a protective parent, sending her away from the potential violent conflict. It seems to me that though there is always the chance a perp was behind the house, the obvious threat was the car inching down the driveway. It seemed threatening enough that you drew your weapon. I don't fault you for sending her into the house. There was no zero-risk choice but you did make a choice and did take charge, for which the result was nobody hurt. So you made the right choice and should feel good about it.